Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

[baa7]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

So yeah, they don't owe us anything but some honesty would be nice doncha think?

Absolutely, honesty and accountability would be a refreshing change. I'm still disgusted with 2K from two years ago when they refused to give refunds on 2K6, which was flat-out broken. Instead, gamers had to wait weeks for a patch that 'fixed' the problem by disabling other game features! Not just that, but 2K continued to sell that broken mess on their site during that entire fiasco - without any consumer alert or mention of the issue with 2K6, anywhere on their site - which I thought was particularily tacky and sleazy.

But 2K seems to have become a cold-blooded business entity since T2 took over. I expect nothing from them anymore. And when I read about their new games and game features, I don't fall for any of it anymore.

[RealmK]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Now you're getting somewhere with the second half of that sentence

It's no secret 2K is somewhat deceptive when marketing their games. Blzer has continually pointed this out, as have I. One example: with 2K6 - their first new-gen game - they advertised 2K6 as having the custom music feature that was in 2K5. But what they conveniently DIDN'T mention in their features write-up, was that it only the last-gen version of the game had that feature, and not the Xbox 360 version.

An argument could be made that Brinkman intentionally lied or at least failed to mention some things about the framerate issue. So yeah, there's an unresolved issue there, I agree. On the other hand, I have yet to see one single instance of this framerate issue while playing the game, except for a very slight slowdown in the opening intro scenes where people are milling about the stadium before the game starts.

Did he lie, or did he play the game on my television?

When do you go to sleep? I'm gonna steal your TV tonight. You're lucky man, I get horrible choppyness during highlights, especially the ones at the end of the game and my tv isn't even HD.

[baa7]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

When do you go to sleep? I'm gonna steal your TV tonight. You're lucky man, I get horrible choppyness during highlights, especially the ones at the end of the game and my tv isn't even HD.

I have a standard TV. I'll sell it to you for 1000 bucks or swap for something high def.

I shut off all my cutscenes, highlights, walkups, everything. One guy hits a HR, scene skips to the next batter standing in the batter's box. I did that not because I saw any framerate issues, but because I've shut off John and Joe, plus I've been watching those same cutscenes since 2K5 and am literally sick of them.

[ehh]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Even if Brinkman does come public with a statement or article I don't think he's going to give us much. The excuses he had last year won't fly this year. I imagine it'll just be a PR move that gives us a pretty empty statement.

I defend this game to no end because I know with a lot of work it can be a very good, even great, game on the field. But 99% of gamers don't go online to places like OS to seek fixes, sliders, etc. Even part of the 1% that does come on here doesn't want to put in the work to make the game better.

They turn the game on, see the frame rate issue, don't understand the pitching, leave it on pro and play a HR fest for an hour before turning the game off and saying it deserves a 4 out of 10.

That's the bottom line. For me, I can look past a lot of the initial crap and see the light at the end of the tunnel, even if it is dim instead of bright. Most people can't and don't and that's going to cost 2K in the long run.

I will be fine w. this game and will play it a ton until the end of summer. Most gamers have already given up on it though I imagine.

[JBH3]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Absolutely, honesty and accountability would be a refreshing change. I'm still disgusted with 2K from two years ago when they refused to give refunds on 2K6, which was flat-out broken. Instead, gamers had to wait weeks for a patch that 'fixed' the problem by disabling other game features! Not just that, but 2K continued to sell that broken mess on their site during that entire fiasco - without any consumer alert or mention of the issue with 2K6, anywhere on their site - which I thought was particularily tacky and sleazy.

But 2K seems to have become a cold-blooded business entity since T2 took over. I expect nothing from them anymore. And when I read about their new games and game features, I don't fall for any of it anymore.

That's pretty much how I feel about EA...So can we now start lumping them into the same boat? That's sad if that's the case. I think 2K still has a better approach to sports games as far as "the little things", but the last 3 years of 2K baseball have ALL had their fair share of problems 2K6 being the worst.

I do like the gameplay of 2K8...to an extent...that extent being the "challenge" factor. I've played 3 games in my chise...The opening Phillies vs Nats series, and the Nats beat me 2-1. After the third game I got the pitching down which is why I won, but I am seeing the same issues as everyone else and it is frustrating.

I've adjusted sliders to try and see some CPU steal attempts or CPU walks and in 3 games not one steal, and only one walk (and I'm a patient hitter). Maybe the lack of seeing a steal was because the CPU wasn't really manufacturing runs on me, but more less hitting for power in those two wins against me. I toned down power quite a bit...

Anyways...I'm babbling now...

For the topic of the thread I too would like to pose some questions to Brinkman, and the 2K team. Unfortunately there would never be a forum to do so, and I don't think we can rely on any IGN postmortem interview for 2K8 because it's all just a bunch of fluff, and the real question don't ever get asked.

My Questions to Brinkman...

1. Why not have a DEMO out before release.
2. Why ship this game w/ the framerate the way it is, and having other blaringly obvious issues.
3. yr 2 of the 3 yr plan was franchise, franchise, franchise...

-but the draft is still broken.
-the lineups and rotations are still broken.
-SIM stats are wayyy off.
-CPU pitchers in simmed games are never injured.
-trade logic still incompetent.

But we do have trading cards...yippeee! Why couldn't that time been focused on the framerate/franchise issues?

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

That's the bottom line. For me, I can look past a lot of the initial crap and see the light at the end of the tunnel, even if it is dim instead of bright. Most people can't and don't and that's going to cost 2K in the long run.

I am in the same boat and do like this game and it gets me more excited for next years game. I do understand the whole three year plan, but don't think that is an excuse (in my mind) to leave broken things in years 1 and 2.

Years 1 (and 2) should have been about fine tuning everything and year 3 should have been about additions, but instead year two was a mix, so we get some new stuff and some old broken stuff. It's like MTV's pimp my ride where they add all of these cool gadgets to the car, but don't fix the busted ingine/transmissin/breaks. Now you have a car that looks great sitting in your driveway because it won't start. 2K8 is definitley not this bad, but the analogy kind of holds true...maybe the trading card system could have been held off until next year.

As I said in my original post, the most frustrating thing about all of this, at least to me, is that the game is so close to being great, but these little things just hold it back enough to piss you off. I love the new pitching system, but when I'm pitching from the stretch, I don't feel the added pressure of a runner on base that I should. I don't have to take my mind off of the hitter to throw over several times, I can go right after the hitter. If the game would let me pitch from the windup with runners on, I could get away with it without penalty.

And as Baa said in another post, we have this detailed complicated pitching system, which adds a whole new level to pitching, we have an improved and more detailed throwing system, but the batting system is so simple a 7-year old can handle it.

This game is fun, but frustrating. You find your self going "Wow, that was awsome" and then instantly shaking your head .

[maverick3176]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

I agree, I think it's funny that some people play the game for 3 innings and say it sucks. It takes much longer than that to get a handle on the new pitching this year.

It only took me about 1 and 1/2 batters to get the pitching down. Its not that tough. However, it didnt take me long to realize how unfun the game is and how far from sim the game is.

The game is bad enough that in 3 innings you can figure it out. There is no unbias reviewer who would say this game is good. At best its average. BUt we are all entitled to our opininons. There has been a recent trend in baseball games, mainly 2K of late, where you have to play it alot to find out that you like it. To me that is a bad game. You should like the game or not pretty soon, to find tweak and make it better might take some time. Prior to 2K6 I could tell right away how I liked the game. Even 2K5 i could tell it was ok with some flaws and with proper tweaking it played better...but with the recent 2K baseball games, its like damn I have to create a game and try to get it to play good.

[maverick3176]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Trev...we have talked for awhile about 2k on the 2K boards and you are clearly a good baseball guy. I am not trying to start something but to be honest I think I know you well enough to know that you know baseball and that the "other" game will "wow" you. If you can its totally worth the money. You, like I, have supported 2K for a while and really know baseball. They keep forcing us to try to like these games...its like being forced to go to the prom of your older sisters ugly friend. Enough is enough, you deserve a hot chic.

[DrJones]

Re: Will there be any kind of follow up with Brinkman?

Years 1 (and 2) should have been about fine tuning everything and year 3 should have been about additions, but instead year two was a mix, so we get some new stuff and some old broken stuff. It's like MTV's pimp my ride where they add all of these cool gadgets to the car, but don't fix the busted ingine/transmissin/breaks. Now you have a car that looks great sitting in your driveway because it won't start. 2K8 is definitley not this bad, but the analogy kind of holds true...maybe the trading card system could have been held off until next year.

Okay, I'll break my promise and address this point. I'm not saying this is what happened with 2K8, but I will describe my EA experiences using your car analogy.

1. Producers need to continually "sell" the game to execs and marketing, who hold the purse strings. Execs and marketing usually don't know or like cars very much, but they love gadgets and hate talk about fixing engines, because fixing engines costs more money/manpower, isn't flashy, and implies there was something wrong with the previous year's product (execs don't like hearing that). They're also VERY concerned with keeping costs down.

2. The Triple Play engine was old and busted. It was beyond repair (at least, within a yearly cycle). The best you could hope for was to keep the thing together with duct tape, put on a fresh coat of paint, and pray the thing didn't fall apart. When the engine's broken (as it was with TP), fixing 1 bug would create 3 fresh ones. Fix those, and 9 more take their place. I put in a lot more hours on Triple Play than I ever did on MVP (except for the first year, 03). It took a ton of work to keep the "clunker" going.

3. It wasn't until 2K started to kick our butts (around 2001, 2002) that EA signed off on building a brand new engine (MVP). A separate team of programmers started working on MVP 03 long before TP 2002 was finished. This means that EA was funding 2 games at the same time, which is a lot of dough. The alternative is taking a year off, which is not an option to the likes of EA or Take Two (especially when T2, for example, is on the hook to MLB to deliver a baseball game by a certain date every year or suffer severe consequences).

Keeping with the car analogy, the producer is the driver. He can decorate the car however he pleases (in fact, the owners often seem more concerned with appearance over performance) and exhort his crew to tune the engine as best they can. But the driver's primary job is to make sure the car reaches the finish line on time. If he needs more time to fix the engine, tough luck. If he needs a new engine (or brand new car), tough luck. Those decisions are not in his hands.

I'm not doing this as a "woe are producers/designers" story. It's part of the business. Sometimes things are our fault. Sometimes there are weird team dynamics. Sometimes there are gaming equivalents of "acts of God". I'm just saying that the next time you see a car reach the finish line and wonder why there's a flat tire and smoke coming from the engine, at least look to the owner's box before wagging your finger at the driver.