MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

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  • Wolverines05
    Rookie
    • Nov 2008
    • 137

    #1

    MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

    While playing mlb 2k8, as well as past 2k baseball games, and comparing it to the ultra sim game that is 08 the show, there was something that always seemed, well, off. Im talking about the small size of the outfields. It seems that the outfield is not much bigger than the infield, and not only does it feel "small," but the gameplay takes a big hit. This has been my biggest gripes with 2k baseball games, and although most might not notice it at first, i am asking you to at least make an observation. Outfields in baseball are simply very big and very spacious with lots of room for outfields to roam free. In 2k8, the outfields are only slightly bigger than the infields, and in order to recreate a "real baseball experience," this needs to be fixed.

    Im making a list of reasons of how bigger outfields would not only make the game more authentic to how MLB really is, but how it would exponentially affect the game in a positive way. My main gripe about the small outfields in 2k8 is that it allows for completely unrealistic fielding and baserunning issues!

    First, im going to give a few examples of how different the outfields are in 2k8 compared to both 08 the show, as well as real baseball.
    1. Bigger outfields would allow for greater hit variety, as there is more room for the ball to travel. This would then help the game feel more diverse and less "scripted."
    2. Bigger outfields would make fielders have to cover more ground. While plaing 2k8, players cover way too much ground in not enough strides. Yet in real baseball, as well as in 08 the show, outfielders have to run a good distance before actually getting to the ball. For example, in MLB 2k8, on a line drive shot to left field, the fielder only takes a few steps to the ball and throws it to the cutoff immediately. in real baseball, outfielders run and cover a lot of ground while getting to a lined shot in the outfield, and then get in back to the cutoff while holding the hitter to a single.
    3. Also, in 2k8, for fly balls, outfielders only need to move a few steps to catch nearly any routine fly ball. Yet, in real baseball, a rountine fly ball oftentimes requires the OF to run a good distance, and then haul the ball in casually.

    There are other examples, but i want to get my essential point across and give reasons to how this negatively affects gameplay in an unrealistic way.

    1. lets take a man on third base. a ball is hit in the air to center field, and the runner on third is looking to tag and go home. in 2k8, since the outfields are so small, there is less distance that the OF has to make to throw home, or to any base for that matter. as a result, it is very likely that the runner would get tagged out at home, whereas in real life the runner would usually tag easily w/o worrying about a throw to the plate.
    2. a batter hits a ball that goes off of the left field wall, and youre looking to in with a stand up double and take a little time to dust off your uniform before the ball gets thrown in to second. well, in 2k8, the OF gets to the ball immediately because the outfields are so small and he doesnt need to cover much ground, and the OF throws a strike to second and has a close play. the runner may be gunned out at second on what would appear to be a routine double. and while the runner may end up safe on another close play, the small outfields allowed for unrealistic fielding/baserunning results. in baseball, after hitting a deep ball that gets to the wall, or in the gap, usually slows down a good margin and jogs safely into second. yet the game makes your player run at full speed to make sure he gets in there safely (which doesnt work all the time)

    Now this is my biggest gripe, especially for those who want to play small ball like i do:
    3. runner on second, base hit up the middle. the runner from second usually scores from a hit to the outfield 9 out of 10 times, unless an absolute lined rocket right at the left/right fielder. yet, once again, since the outfields are too small, not only do the outfielders get to the ball in an unrealistically fast amount of time, but they have a shorter distance to throw home than in real life. This way, it is nearly impossible to score on a base hit to the outfield with a man on second. And, when this rare occasion does actually occur where i do score in this scenario, it is at least a close play at the plate. in real baseball, the OF understands that he has no shot at the plate and will casually send it back into second base, where the runner from second touches home safely w/o having to worry about a throw home.
    4. Now, after realizing that it is hard to score on a base hit with a man on second, lets take a look into how it affects your strategy. What is the point of bunting and moving a man over to second if you need a double to drive him home? What is the point of utilizing speed (pinch runners, shaping your team around athleticism, etc.) if it is nearly impossible to play small ball and score from second base on a single? What is the point of sacrificing a man to third base and hoping a sac fly drives him in when it is rarely occurs? This is why i really hope that the outfields are bigger, as not only would it affect gameplay tremendously, but it would make the game more realistic/lifelike/authentic!

    Lastly, I want to mention how fielding ratings would become more important with greater outfields. With bigger outfields, it would make baserunning speed more important, and it would make the player range rating matter that much more, as there would be more room to cover. Also, throwing strength would be that much more important, as there would be a greater importance in having guys with strong arms in a bigger outfield.

    OK. im done with my rant. but i seriously hope that the developers of 2k9 see this and make it a reality in the game. I know i would buy 2k9 if bigger outfields were in the game. Tell me what you guys think
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  • doughron
    Rookie
    • Apr 2007
    • 115

    #2
    Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

    I completely agree with you. I've also felt that the size of the fields in the 2K series is way off from what it should be. Not only does it affect plays in the outfield, but I really notice it too in the infield. The infields are WAY too small. As a result I find I rarely see balls that split the SS/3B, 2B/1B as they would frequently occur in real baseball.
    Play a game in either the Rogers Centre or the Metrodome and look at the dirt areas around the bases and compare them to real pictures. They are so tiny in the game compared to real life because they have to make them so small because of the size of the fields.
    However, I don't think we can really expect them to fix this because I'm sure they'd have to redo all the stadiums and I highly doubt they'll be doing that anytime soon. But we can hope I guess.

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    • K_GUN
      C*t*z*n *f RSN
      • Jul 2002
      • 3891

      #3
      Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

      i will say this though.....i think 2k is MUCh better at the pitcher/batter perspective.

      the pitcher is still too far away in mlb 08

      go out to any HS/legion/college field and step in the batters box & try to imagine CC Sabathia on that mound......massive....feels like he's right on top of you

      2k accomplishes this

      mlb does not
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      • stealyerface
        MVP
        • Feb 2004
        • 1803

        #4
        Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

        Excellent and valid observation. While they are at it, they should work on the dimensions of the infield as well. With sliders and tweaking of the slider set, you can remedy this to a point by making the outfielders and infielders slower to react, and making their overall speed lower than the default. This makes the stand up doubles to the base of the wall exactly as they should be...stand up doubles.

        THe issue with the size is that they typically got the measurements of the fields correct, they just made the player models too big to stand in the rendered fields. If they want to keep the player models that size to accomodate the animations, and not detract from the look of the players themselves, that is fine by me. They just need to make sure that field is scaled to the rendering of the player models.

        For those who have played baseball forever, there is quite a space between a third baseman and a shortstop shading a batter slightly up the middle. In fact, there is more than enough room for a ball that is not hit terribly hard, to occasionally find that hole between the two, and lazily roll into the outfield between them. When was the last time you saw a ball actually get between the third baseman and shortstop in the 2k8 game that wasn't an absolute laser? Again, I have been able to force the game to make this happen occasionally with sliders, but the player models are still too big for their infield.

        If you are interested, I will copy down the slider set that I have used to achieve a pretty darn good game of baseball, complete with small ball ability, and outfielders that do not run down everything in sight. I would encourage you to play 5-7 games with these sliders, and see if you can also see a great game or two, and maybe you can utilize this set up until 2k unveils the Holy Grail that is 2k9. Or not.

        Either way, they do indeed need to either scale down the player models, or come up with a way to make the fielding surface match the size of player rendering they want to use.

        SYF
        "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

        Comment

        • areobee401
          Hall Of Fame
          • Apr 2006
          • 16771

          #5
          Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

          I also have to agree here. I have been saying for the last two years that the field and outfield wall seemed far too small. With speed burst coming back this year the small outfield could really hurt outfield play once again.
          http://twitter.com/smittyroberts

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          • Wolverines05
            Rookie
            • Nov 2008
            • 137

            #6
            Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

            Originally posted by areobee401
            I also have to agree here. I have been saying for the last two years that the field and outfield wall seemed far too small. With speed burst coming back this year the small outfield could really hurt outfield play once again.
            its great that you guys are agreeing with me, as i thought that maybe it was all in my mind. but, how do you know speed burst is coming back?

            also, when do guys you think real 2k9 info will come out? also, what are the chances that the new 2k dev. team will be aware of the issue of small outfields (and maybe infields as well) and change it?
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            • Blzer
              Resident film pundit
              • Mar 2004
              • 42530

              #7
              Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

              Field proportions are fine (as in, 90 feet from home to first and 320 feet from home to right are correctly proportionate). The players may be too big, the ball may travel too fast, or something else.

              The problem is the stadiums in general. They just aren't massive at all. Even the number of rows is wrong (and it's not off by one or two, it's off by like... a lot). Makes it too easy to park it into an upper deck or into the Cove. Maybe they aren't even "steep" enough if that makes sense.

              But yeah, there are some problems with the stadium not playing properly with the ball, etc. But the outfield is proportionately correct with the infield.
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              • areobee401
                Hall Of Fame
                • Apr 2006
                • 16771

                #8
                Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

                Originally posted by Blzer
                Field proportions are fine (as in, 90 feet from home to first and 320 feet from home to right are correctly proportionate). The players may be too big, the ball may travel too fast, or something else.

                The problem is the stadiums in general. They just aren't massive at all. Even the number of rows is wrong (and it's not off by one or two, it's off by like... a lot). Makes it too easy to park it into an upper deck or into the Cove. Maybe they aren't even "steep" enough if that makes sense.

                But yeah, there are some problems with the stadium not playing properly with the ball, etc. But the outfield is proportionately correct with the infield.
                The field is proportioned correct as far as distence from home to the mount and so on. So your right about that but the field is not proportioned right in terms of player size and stadium size. I agree with about the stadiums being too small. You don't get that major league feel when playing the game at all.
                http://twitter.com/smittyroberts

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                • EnigmaNemesis
                  Animal Liberation
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 12216

                  #9
                  Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

                  Originally posted by areobee401
                  The field is proportioned correct as far as distence from home to the mount and so on. So your right about that but the field is not proportioned right in terms of player size and stadium size. I agree with about the stadiums being too small. You don't get that major league feel when playing the game at all.

                  I totally agree with this aspect. And I made a post about it last year, thinking The Show was "too big" ... then I played it, and it was that 2K felt "too small". Proportion wise.
                  Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

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                  • Blzer
                    Resident film pundit
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 42530

                    #10
                    Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

                    I think another problem is the camera plays a trick on you (plus the ball and such doesn't play correctly since there's no "air drag" or proper grass friction, two things I've had a little bone to pick about since 2K5). I made a post once about this, and I'm sure if I dig deep enough into my Photobucket album I can give you a good example of what I mean.



                    EDIT: Here it is. This is a prime example of how the camera can play "tricks" on your eyes:





                    As you can see, from our focal point of view, the distance from one point to another is nearly identical. However, given a realistic perspective, we know that from home to third base is 90 feet, and from home to the closest point of the green monster is (310 - 90) = 220 feet. I think that, with the way the "camera" in the game doesn't really pan out to the outfield and instead stays behind home plate and zooms, we get this same feel of a smaller stadium. In The Show, it never really changes its depth of field and instead follows the ball. It's not quite a "fish-eye" look, but the shot is just so "wide" in a way and doesn't change. We even see this with the regular batter's cam.

                    I hope this makes a bit of sense.
                    Last edited by Blzer; 12-09-2008, 01:03 AM.
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                    • Wolverines05
                      Rookie
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 137

                      #11
                      Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

                      Originally posted by Blzer
                      I think another problem is the camera plays a trick on you (plus the ball and such doesn't play correctly since there's no "air drag" or proper grass friction, two things I've had a little bone to pick about since 2K5). I made a post once about this, and I'm sure if I dig deep enough into my Photobucket album I can give you a good example of what I mean.



                      EDIT: Here it is. This is a prime example of how the camera can play "tricks" on your eyes:





                      As you can see, from our focal point of view, the distance from one point to another is nearly identical. However, given a realistic perspective, we know that from home to third base is 90 feet, and from home to the closest point of the green monster is (310 - 90) = 220 feet. I think that, with the way the "camera" in the game doesn't really pan out to the outfield and instead stays behind home plate and zooms, we get this same feel of a smaller stadium. In The Show, it never really changes its depth of field and instead follows the ball. It's not quite a "fish-eye" look, but the shot is just so "wide" in a way and doesn't change. We even see this with the regular batter's cam.

                      I hope this makes a bit of sense.

                      While this is a great picture to show point of view, that still doesnt negate the fact that there are problems with the gameplay. Why is it, then, nearly impossible to score from second with a base hit to outfield, hard to tag from second to third/third to home w/ a fly ball in the OF? Or the fact that what would normally be a stand up double in real life is oftentimes a close play at 2nd base. (or even thrown out)

                      Maybe it is the fact that the rendered player models are too big, although the models in 2k8 were still significantly smaller than the beautiful players of 2k7. Maybe players cover way too much range and get to the ball immediately. At least, in 2k8, throwing strenght felt realistic, as in past 2k games, outfielders had rocket arms.

                      Also, if someone could maybe compare more pics of 2k8 stadiums to those in real life, that would be great.

                      And finally, the pic you showed of Fenway displays what is maybe the smallest left field in all of baseball, but it still is a good example.
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                      • Blzer
                        Resident film pundit
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 42530

                        #12
                        Re: MLB 2k8 Field Proportions (very important for 2k9)

                        The problem is in the lack of air and grass friction. It's like super balls on cement when it bounces, and there is no negative horizontal acceleration as the ball is traveling in the air. These two things combined cause what people call on here "rocket arms" (which I don't think is a proper term for this situation at all).

                        And small or large left field (which Houston has the smallest, regardless of what it actually says on the wall), 90 feet vs 220 feet is not that small of a difference. It is marginal, and for them to look exactly the same is an indication of how people can perceive the outfield in the game to look this size as well. Of course, this is only an example.
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                        • EnigmaNemesis
                          Animal Liberation
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 12216

                          #13
                          @ Blzer

                          Thanks for sharing that info with the picture on depth of view.

                          Puts things in a whole new perspective, while I still kind of feel there is something off with the 2K stadium dimensions, it does explain a whole lot more.
                          Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

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                          • truckie16
                            Pro
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 597

                            #14
                            Re: @ Blzer

                            One thing with the example you guys fail to see, is the size of the people who are out on the field. They are tiny compared to those in 2k.

                            Overall I think the problem is a little bit of everything you guys mentioned. Ball physics, player models, stadium models, player reaction times, all of it comes into play.

                            Personally I think the entire engine should be scrapped at this point in it's life cycle. They have tried for what 4-5 yrs to fix it. Use The Bigs code or try to buy the High Heat code from MS. Just do something other than patch work.

                            Comment

                            • baa7
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 11691

                              #15
                              Re: @ Blzer

                              Originally posted by truckie16
                              One thing with the example you guys fail to see, is the size of the people who are out on the field. They are tiny compared to those in 2k.
                              The size of the players in 2K was mentioned a number of times in this thread.

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