An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

[Bahnzo]

And how this relates to 2K8 (and other baseball games I guess).

I've been re-reading "Ball Four", which is a book written by a former Major League pitcher Jim Bouton. If you don't know who he is, Bouton has a couple of 20+ win seasons with the Yankees in the early 60's before his arm basically gave out.

I read somewhere that one of the dev's of MLB2K9 when talking about pitching basically said, when making the correct motion and timing it correctly, that the pitch would be accurate. They didn't want to punish the user for doing everything perfect and then not get the perfect pitch.

Which makes sense, except it doesn't at all.

Bouton, in his book, talks briefly about pitchers and accuracy. He hates the notion that any pitchers have "pinpoint accuracy". He says he has talked with many other pitchers and they all agree that no pitcher can ever consistently throw to an exact area. Instead he estimates that even the best pitchers can probably be accurate to an area of about one foot, or 1'x1', when throwing to a spot.

Which has me thinking that there definitely needs to be some randomness built into pitching (especially for the user) in the MLB2K series. Even if you do manage to time and twiddle the stick in the correct motion, you shouldn't be able to locate every pitch with pinpoint accuracy. You should be able to hit your spot, but that spot should be a 1'x1' area that the ball could land in.

Something like this would make pitching MUCH better IMO. Maybe couple it with the pitcher's composure and stamina and other ratings. If a pitcher is pitching well and in the zone, then the "spot" for a perfect pitch becomes smaller. But when tired or rattled, that "spot" becomes larger. As it is now, pitching is much too easy from the user's perspective.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

And how this relates to 2K8 (and other baseball games I guess).

I've been re-reading "Ball Four", which is a book written by a former Major League pitcher Jim Bouton. If you don't know who he is, Bouton has a couple of 20+ win seasons with the Yankees in the early 60's before his arm basically gave out.

I read somewhere that one of the dev's of MLB2K9 when talking about pitching basically said, when making the correct motion and timing it correctly, that the pitch would be accurate. They didn't want to punish the user for doing everything perfect and then not get the perfect pitch.

Which makes sense, except it doesn't at all.

Bouton, in his book, talks briefly about pitchers and accuracy. He hates the notion that any pitchers have "pinpoint accuracy". He says he has talked with many other pitchers and they all agree that no pitcher can ever consistently throw to an exact area. Instead he estimates that even the best pitchers can probably be accurate to an area of about one foot, or 1'x1', when throwing to a spot.

Which has me thinking that there definitely needs to be some randomness built into pitching (especially for the user) in the MLB2K series. Even if you do manage to time and twiddle the stick in the correct motion, you shouldn't be able to locate every pitch with pinpoint accuracy. You should be able to hit your spot, but that spot should be a 1'x1' area that the ball could land in.

Something like this would make pitching MUCH better IMO. Maybe couple it with the pitcher's composure and stamina and other ratings. If a pitcher is pitching well and in the zone, then the "spot" for a perfect pitch becomes smaller. But when tired or rattled, that "spot" becomes larger. As it is now, pitching is much too easy from the user's perspective.

someone is finally speaking my language over here...lol

[ChubbyBanana]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

This would be interesting. I wonder if sliders would allow us to tweak accuracy so that it's more random.

Maybe they would allow users to have a virtual 1x1 box.

I'm not a slider guru by any means, but I think that's probably your best bet. Problem is if you loosen up the control to create a 1x1 for perfect marks, how bad is it if you miss your marks completely?

[Bahnzo]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

someone is finally speaking my language over here...lol

It just makes sense, doesn't it?

I understand the dev's wanting to reward the user for making the correct inputs, but it's fundamentally wrong in how it's done. Pitching should have some "miss" in it. I know we can probably tweak a slider to make the meter faster and tougher to time, but eventually the rhythm will become second nature. A bit of randomness needs to be built in.

[Blzer]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

World Series Baseball 2K3 had a pitching variability setting (off, low, medium, high). I can't for the life of me figure out why Kush removed this.

Also I know we can't do it in the demo, but can we turn off the pitching cursor? Them removing this option from the game was also a terrible idea.

Finally, shouldn't they make it risk/reward? We'll be more accurate by giving more effort? That's kind of going backwards from what they want in fielding.

[baa7]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Instead he estimates that even the best pitchers can probably be accurate to an area of about one foot, or 1'x1', when throwing to a spot.

Which has me thinking that there definitely needs to be some randomness built into pitching (especially for the user) in the MLB2K series.

Excellent find, and I agree 100%. The HH series got it mostly right. A pitch would locate in a general area only. There was no pinpoint locating like there is in 2K. MLB 08 was a big improvement in that regard over previous versions of that game. The same pitch would locate in different spots each time. But not by a 1'x1' differential; maybe 3"-4" either way.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

This would be interesting. I wonder if sliders would allow us to tweak accuracy so that it's more random.

Maybe they would allow users to have a virtual 1x1 box.

I'm not a slider guru by any means, but I think that's probably your best bet. Problem is if you loosen up the control to create a 1x1 for perfect marks, how bad is it if you miss your marks completely?

Ask Daniel Cabrera...lol.

Seriously though, it's one of the things I like about The Show. It's not perfect, but the pitching feels more natural to me and even if you do everything right you can still miss (and ratings do play into this as well).

Now, I have my own gripes with that game's pitching as well (no vs Lefty/Righty ratings for pitchers, pitchers can lose stuff too fast and the ratings don't dicate it enough, etc.) and I do like the controls of 2K, but the overall feel of realism is nice and captures the essence of what the OP suggested.

It would really bump 2K's pitching realism in my eyes.

[JonahFalcon]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Don't forget the role a catcher has in "pinpoint accuracy" - it's called "framing the pitch". That' catcher's mitt is a big object, ya know.

[Bahnzo]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

World Series Baseball 2K3 had a pitching variability setting (off, low, medium, high). I can't for the life of me figure out why Kush removed this.

Also I know we can't do it in the demo, but can we turn off the pitching cursor? Them removing this option from the game was also a terrible idea.

Yeah, hard to understand why they would remove that feature, it sounds great. Not only does it allow you to have some randomness, but give those who don't want it to turn it off. Makes no sense.

I'd also like to know if the cursor can be turned off, don't think I've read anything about it (and not sure I have the willpower to sort through all of the screens Steve posted to see if there's an option).

[baa7]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

I'd also like to know if the cursor can be turned off

Nope. Which is why I never use that pitching option.

[MacDaddy]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Apparently Bouton has never seen my boy Greg Maddux pitch. He routinely pops leather to blindfolded catchers in practice sessions. If that isn't pinpoint accuracy then i don't know what is.

But for 99.9% of pitchers, yeah i'd agree.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

Apparently Bouton has never seen my boy Greg Maddux pitch. He routinely pops leather to blindfolded catchers in practice sessions. If that isn't pinpoint accuracy then i don't know what is.

But for 99.9% of pitchers, yeah i'd agree.

I'm a huge Maddux fan, but he made his fair share of mistakes over his career as well and you would know it just by his body language. You would never have to see the pitch cross the plate and know he messed up because he would turn and yell out the f-word. He definitely did it better than most anyone else and he's definitely the exception to the rule, but it wasn't a shocker to see one of his patented two seam fastballs tail back over the middle half of the plate.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: An interesting quote on pitching accuracy...

And how this relates to 2K8 (and other baseball games I guess).

I've been re-reading "Ball Four", which is a book written by a former Major League pitcher Jim Bouton. If you don't know who he is, Bouton has a couple of 20+ win seasons with the Yankees in the early 60's before his arm basically gave out.

Great book. I read it a few months ago and definitely one of the better baseball books I have read and I've read quote a few. The guy definitely has a different mind than most other baseball players.

I've put this idea out there on a few occasions, but it seems this could be accomplished by making the smallest possible location circle (a perfectly executed pitch) different sizes for different pitchers. A pitcher with Maddux type accuracy would have a circle just slightly larger than a baseball on a perfect fastball and a guy like Zito would have one that is still the size of basketball when he does everything right on his fastball. On a perfectly executed pitch, the ball would end up somewhere in that circle......then from the fastball to other pitches, the size of the circle would increase as almost all pitchers lose control and throw more to an area than a spot with a curveball or another breaking pitch.

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Here is my other gripe.

Basically they are saying when you are pitching, if you execute the gesture and everything else right, why shouldn't the pitch be perfect. However when you are up to bat and you time the pitch perfectly there are still occasions when your hitter will swing and miss (over/under the ball, which is beyond the users control in a timing only system), though again, you did everything perfect. Why different philosophies for hitting vs. pitching. They contradict each other.

And if they are going to go the "If you execute perfect, the pitch will be perfect" route, then they need to design a system in which it is harder to execute for a crappy pitcher than it is for a great one....However they do it, there needs to be a system that makes hitting spots harder for the Zito's than for the Maddux's and makes throwing a curveball at the knee's on the corner harder than a fastball in the same spot.

[bobbysco13]

Other pitching options

Does 2K have a one button pitch type option?? If so, is there a variety to the accuracy of the pitches based on the individual's ratings? Thanks for any info..... I guess I'm kind of looking if there's kind of a "classic" pitching option like The Show has

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Other pitching options

Does 2K have a one button pitch type option?? If so, is there a variety to the accuracy of the pitches based on the individual's ratings? Thanks for any info..... I guess I'm kind of looking if there's kind of a "classic" pitching option like The Show has

There is a button system, but I believe it's the system introduced in 2K7 (was also an option in 2K8...but I can't remember the name of it). Basically you have a circle that grows (this is your effort/effectiveness)-you press a button to stop it at the desired level. Then the circle shrinks (this is the accuracy)-and you press a button again to stop as close to the center as possible for desired accuracy.