Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

[baa7]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

If you have no interest in games published by 2k, I fully expect you to avoid the forums according.

I rent these games each year and will continue to post my observations and thoughts, just like every one else at OS.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

I think most agree with this, but are just frustrated by the lack of effort and quality that followed. Looking back on them handing the reigns over to Kush, one must wonder what they were thinking. They (Kush) were completely incapable of making a quality title and failed for multiple years. They signed Brinkman, which may or may not have been a bad decision, but did they give him enough resources to succeed?

And I'd agree. I tried arguing in another thread that the progress of this game parallels Madden (no one has taken me up on it yet) to some degree. It's just that people are less forgiving when it comes to this game for whatever reason. The next gen MLB2K6 was horrible and simply a mistake; had to set them back. But I think after hiring Brinkman the series improved steadily, and actually innovated in some ways with it's use of the right stick. Although there were people here crying for Brinkman's head by the end of 2K8 (much of it because of feeling slighted about the PS3 if I remember correctly), I seem to remember people having a generally positive view on the game after the big gameplay patch [for 2K8].

While last year's game wasn't a large leap forward, it wasn't a large step backward either. It was VC's first year, and it progressed forward. I just think there's this huge perception that the game is horrible because people have this expectation that it's supposed to be exactly what they perceive The Show as being. The fact is the series has progressed steadily since '06, it hasn't regressed (imo). And in fact it's shown innovation in key areas where it's on par with or more forward-thinking than The Show, in areas like batting/pitching/fielding/baserunning/real-time presentation/interruptible commentary. I don't see people arguing that the button-mashing interface or cutscenes are the way of the future.

I'm not trying to slight The Show, just saying that MLB2K would seem to deserve a chance especially when compared to other sports titles that are looked at favorably simply because they've improved, like Madden or Live. As I argued in the thread below, Madden hasn't really innovated with much of anything - and no one's disputed me in that thread. But the outlook is overall positive. For whatever reason this game isn't given the same benefit of the doubt:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ball-2k-4.html

[BigL]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

2K made a mistake by investing too much money in their deal with MLB, for a sport that just doesn't translate nearly as well to videogames as football, basketball, or even hockey.

Sorry but I completely disagree with that statement. To me baseball translates the best to video games. In football its so difficult to mimic blocking schemes, coverages, tackling from different angles etc, in hockey and bball there are so many variable things that can happen its tough to put it all in a video game. A baseball game is not that difficult to mimic, pitch the ball, hit the ball and have a realistic physics system in place to make the hits realistic. Of course from there you have to fill in the rest of the gaps, AI Intelligence, fielding, etc but I think baseball games translate the best

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Sorry but I completely disagree with that statement. To me baseball translates the best to video games. In football its so difficult to mimic blocking schemes, coverages, tackling from different angles etc, in hockey and bball there are so many variable things that can happen its tough to put it all in a video game. A baseball game is not that difficult to mimic, pitch the ball, hit the ball and have a realistic physics system in place to make the hits realistic. Of course from there you have to fill in the rest of the gaps, AI Intelligence, fielding, etc but I think baseball games translate the best

I'm talking about a fun gameplay experience. Baseball is too slow and tedious for too many people. I love it. Heck, the biggest gripe I had with MLB 2K9 was the inability to bring up my opponents line-up in game so I could check out the L/R match-ups coming up.

It may be tougher to really mimic hockey and basketball because of the variables involved, but the games are constant motion, and constant payoffs. Lots of scoring in basketball, and lots of violent hits and momentum changes in hockey.

Not only that, but I can play a game o NHL 10, and get fairly realistic shot and penalty stats in about half and hour. My MLB 2K9 and 2K9 games were going for an hour, hour and a half. That's just too long for a single game.

Football is just everyone's favorite sport, and while tough to balance all of the things necessary, has a much better payoff than a baseball game. A good run, a completed pass, or a big hit are all more common and visceral than what you can get in a baseball game that plays realistically.

So the ease of creating the game is balanced out by just how hard it is to make long seasons compelling to play. I just finished an entire 82 game season in NHL 10, and that never happens in any baseball game I've played, save some text based games I used to play more often.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Not to sidetrack the thread but I'd also like to throw out another thing to possibly consider about the MLB exclusivity agreement. When the NFL/NCAA/Arena League deals went down, they happened all within months of each other - might've been weeks. I'm not going to make the argument that anything EA did was illegal, but the moves were certainly aimed at eliminating it's competition. And at the time, many of us felt the NBA was next - and in fact, the NBA was in play for a while until David Stern wisely opted to allow competition. So at the time, there was a distinct possibility 2KSports could've been eliminated as a viable sports developer had they not done something. EA already had exclusivity deals with FIFA & NASCAR, when it added the NFL & NCAA.

In retrospect, the MLB deal is looking like it may not have been good for 2K. But at the time, there was a very real danger that all the major sports leagues were going to be wrapped up to an exclusive deal with someone. I think that needs to be considered when people on these forums play Monday morning QB and cite how foolish they think this deal was (not directed at the person I quoted obviously)

You can throw in the ESPN license there too. They went from being called ESPN Video Games to losing it all. Whether you like Sega Sports, ESPN VG, 2K Sports or not, by the time 2004-2005 rolled around, they had set themselves up to be a very valuable alternative to EA Sports. Several licensing agreements really crippled them.

When you look at a potential EA license with the MLB, I'm sure Take Two thought that it was the best business decision, but the development of MLB 2K has not been parallel with that gutsy decision, not to mention the door being open for a first party to develop. It would be interesting to know why there was that stipulation in the contract.

I would agree too that 2K's baseball offering is along the lines of EA's football. This is the first season I'm still playing Madden after October. Still, I tried real hard last year to keep it going with MLB 2K9, but there were just too many issues that prevented me from doing so. That's where the exclusive deals are so different. Madden doesn't have an annual game challenging it, MLB 2K does and they are paying the price.

[baa7]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

That's where the exclusive deals are so different. Madden doesn't have an annual game challenging it, MLB 2K does and they are paying the price.

It could be argued that T2-2K is fully aware they have no competition on the Xbox 360 and, because of that, operate under a similar mindset to EA with regards to Madden. Meaning, they know they can put out anything they want, regardless of the quality, and the majority of gamers (Xbox 360 baseball gamers in the case of MLB 2K) will still purchase their game due to a complete lack of choice.

For goodness sakes, they didn't even bother to put out a patch for the PS3 version of MLB 2K8. That game was close to unplayable due to framerate issues. 2K released a framerate patch for the 360 version, so what does that tell you about their attitude and relationship with the PS3 version of their game? They obviously don't care. And they don't care because they know they can't compete with The Show, so they've given up and are focused instead on being exclusive to the 360.

So IMO you can't say they're paying the price of having competition. They're paying the price for being lazy and myopic. They're happy controlling half the baseball gaming market (and conveniently for T2-2K, the gaming market half that has no other choice).

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Well, it is confusing to me why you could get so worked up over a game you have never bought. It would seem you are trolling in stead of trying to offer thoughtful critique.

I know it's not trendy to take up for baa around here, but he's said nothing wrong or out of line on the subject. He's simply stating his take on this statement by T2. Basically, it appears as an excuse that comes far too late in a lot of ways.

People keep saying it was known for awhile and that's true. I also agree that the consumer should be wiser. BUT, to baa's point, that doesn't take from the fact that 2K essentially knowingly was deceptive in the making and marketing of their game. Only after successive flops do they come out with such "revelation." They have culpability here, regardless of consumer savvy. It's akin excusing a criminal for the crime because the victim was essentially "asking for it."

And I completely disagree with the notion that you must annually fall prey to poor games to be able to critique them. If you've played the game via rental or even at a friends house, you have as much a right and frame of reference to discuss the quality (or lack thereof in this case) of the product in question. Direct purchase has little to do with whether or not one has a vested interest (say, in seeing quality titles available for sports you may want to play on a given system).

"Troll" gets tossed around far too liberally around here...especially when the one taking things away from the discussion at hand is the one pointing out the alleged "trolling." Disagreeing is one thing, but this is going far beyond simple disagreement IMO. Popularity should have nothing to do with validity of a point.

[Pared]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

If someone wants to have a hard stance on a game year after year, it's not without reason to expect the community that this individual has played the game thoroughly enough to provide a viewpoint better than that of a raving know-it-all.

It's in the same interest that we ask individuals to provide proof of ownership of a game pre-release.

[kcxiv]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Eh, trolling is has a different meaning for different people. For me, it means various things. Sign up on here just to moan and groan and offer no other insight=trolling. Trolling to me also means that you keep saying the same negative things about something over and over. Its like ok, we got it the first time. Move on. There are plenty of things i want to say regarding EA's football games, but i refrain because it will get me banned and i can respect the TOS this website has.

For me, its just say what you want and move on, dont keep going over and over again. Do research about certain things to understand whats actually going on. Most people dont do that.

[baseball66]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

If someone wants to have a hard stance on a game year after year, it's not without reason to expect the community that this individual has played the game thoroughly enough to provide a viewpoint better than that of a raving know-it-all.

It's in the same interest that we ask individuals to provide proof of ownership of a game pre-release.

Then again some games don't need to be played thoroughly to see what it is.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

2K blaming their games' sales is akin to an stumbling drunk who blames the room for spinning around to fast. Hey 2K: try investing some MONEY into marketing and hiring programming talent.

Put out a quality game and advertise it properly and they'll see sales jump up. This is not rocket science.

This is the comment of baa's that I take issue with. I already agree that 2K spent less money than they should have in regards to the game. The article is making the case that becasue of the licensing deal and the fact that baseball games are not the cash cow football games are, the extra expense would be wasted.

As I pointed out, there aren't that many more sales to snap up. That's why, as gamers, we have come to accept the three year plans of improving games. We knew that the resources are not there to make the game whole in year when 2K brought VC in to work in the game.

The analogy was beyond poor of a drunk blaming the room for spinning was not accurate, and just hyperbole on the part of baa. It was obvious that he didn't comprehend the article, and decided to to take the opportunity to bash on 2K for the fun.

This is actually a good topic for discussion among people that care to discuss it instead of finding new ways to say, "2K sux!"

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Eh, trolling is has a different meaning for different people. For me, it means various things. Sign up on here just to moan and groan and offer no other insight=trolling. Trolling to me also means that you keep saying the same negative things about something over and over. Its like ok, we got it the first time. Move on. There are plenty of things i want to say regarding EA's football games, but i refrain because it will get me banned and i can respect the TOS this website has.

For me, its just say what you want and move on, dont keep going over and over again. Do research about certain things to understand whats actually going on. Most people dont do that.

I agree. That's why I am not complaining about Madden over in their forum, despite renting or buying it every year. Every game that I felt the level of disgust I see by some results in moving on to play something else, and no longer discussing said game.

I think threads that are critical of a game are good, and go a long ways into either getting things patched, or warning others to avoid. But what happens is that some people have decided to play the game with caveats, and they have to wade through BS from people that should be playing something else by this point.

There are people that truly enjoy Madden this year. I don't see it, but I also don't see forcing them to defend their choice in a game.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

For goodness sakes, they didn't even bother to put out a patch for the PS3 version of MLB 2K8. That game was close to unplayable due to framerate issues. 2K released a framerate patch for the 360 version, so what does that tell you about their attitude and relationship with the PS3 version of their game? They obviously don't care. And they don't care because they know they can't compete with The Show, so they've given up and are focused instead on being exclusive to the 360.

So IMO you can't say they're paying the price of having competition. They're paying the price for being lazy and myopic. They're happy controlling half the baseball gaming market (and conveniently for T2-2K, the gaming market half that has no other choice).

I never knew that about the PS3 not receiving a patch and the 360 receiving one. That's not good. This is where though I don't think 2K, meaning Visual Concepts, feels they can't compete with the show. As far as I know, Jeff and Greg Thomas are still there. They have been there for a while and I don't see them taking the mindset of "we can't compete."

I think in all of it they simply don't have the time and resources. I don't see VC, the company that so well refined their football product and also created what is NBA 2K, folding up and being lazy. I think it all is in the fault of Take Two not being able to support a full effort.

lol..but what do I know.

[jkra0512]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

They have culpability here, regardless of consumer savvy. It's akin excusing a criminal for the crime because the victim was essentially "asking for it."

No it's not the same. I am saying think twice before choosing the road that has a lot of criminal activity on it, because they are essentially "asking for it" if they do walk down without taking the necessary precautions.* If 2k repeatedly sold you crap year after year, then that person is either dumb or they don't care. As a consumer you have to pick up on that, make an informed decision and not blindly buy the game only to look back and complain about it year after year afterward.

2K is wrong in every facet here, but we consumers are also at fault for enabling this YEAR AFTER YEAR...

*(Not calling 2k criminal, just going with the analogy presented)

[Pared]

Re: Not the Bottom of the Ninth, But a Big At-Bat Coming For MLB 2K10

Then again some games don't need to be played thoroughly to see what it is.

Yet they still draw individuals writing thesis papers on them year round. Funny how that works.