Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

[Blazzen]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

No check swings is an absolutely fatal design omission and I guess they finally realized it.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I'm just wondering if check swings will be limited to the user only? I would hope that the AI (CPU) batters will be able to use them as well.
Kinda worrisome that this was an afterthought addition to this yrs game.

I don't know... the thing about a check swing is it is a human reaction. It's our mind telling us yes-yes-yes-NO!

I don't know how you make a computer have that reaction. (Does this happen in the other game? I have no idea). As far as I'm concered, once the pitch leaves your pitchers hand, the outcome of what happens to the batter is already calculated. In other words, I don't know if it's reacting to what is visually happening on the screen or to what is happening through calculations by the computer. Once that pitch leaves your hand, there is an option to swing or not swing...I don't think there is the yes-yes-yes-no reaction humans have. I think it's just yes or no right from the beginnning.

I guess they could force them to occur a certain % of the time just so we can see them, but I don't know if thats any better.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

(Does this happen in the other game? I have no idea).

Yes it does. And it is very realistic with pitcher vs. batter and vice/versa.

It is no more a "human reaction" than that of swinging or not swinging. It can be programmed in the AI with hitter tendencies and pitch location, every bit as taking pitches, or swinging at bad ones.



Some people should try and play the other game and see what the hype is about. You will see that it all feels natural and pretty damn realistic. Heck, check swings, etc have been done by the AI since HH days.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

Yes it does. And it is very realistic with pitcher vs. batter and vice/versa.

It is no more a "human reaction" than that of swinging or not swinging. It can be programmed in the AI with hitter tendencies and pitch location, every bit as taking pitches, or swinging at bad ones.

I see what you are saying, but in the other game (which I'd love to play, but can't warrant the purchase of a new system to play it)is the computer actually being fooled or is it just pre-programmed to be a check swing based on a programmed %. In other words, on a fastball on the inside corner to player X is there a 70% chance of swinging a 29% chance of taking and a 1% chance of a check swing?

All the other stuff (taking pitches, swinging at bad ones and everything else) can truely be based on tendencies and calculated on the fly..and while it's possible, I just don't think they have a check swing tendency by player by zone, like they do for taking, swinging and hitting, swinging and missing, etc...If they do, then hell, there is really no argument to be made.

However, I think it is different from swinging taking, becuase 99% of the time a player check swings it's because they were fooled late in the pitch. They initially thought the pitch was either a certain type or in a certian location that they then realized was wrong causing them to try and stop their swing...how do you fool a computer?

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

It doesn't matter how they do it.

The point it, it is done, and it nets realistic and satisfying results. Something you will have to play to get a grasp of. No other game has ever done the pitcher/hitter tendencies and duals so well before it.

Until then, you are just going to speculate, and miss out.

[jeffy777]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I went back and played some MLB 2K9 last night and the AI checks their swing quite a bit, with umpire appeals, etc. I really hope they left the AI part of it in as well.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

Toss a "BS" this way then...lol.

Being "sim" is a part of it I suppose, but for me it's all about functionality and being able to approach hitting with a plan. I love grinding out an AB for a walk almost as much (if not more) than hitting a HR (must be the Sox fan in me!)

I check-swing "on-purpose" all the time. It was a HUGE deal to me that it was out. Now that they've confirmed it's getting patched in, it should become a moot point anyway. The rest of the system sounds like it got a great deal of attention. If it plays even half-way decently and there are no major or debilitating bugs (I'm a realist, and expect ALL games to have some bugs) I'm in for a PC copy.

I am a bit confused and I think you aren't understanding what he's saying.
No one check swings "on purpose". When I hear that it sounds like you know ahead of time that the next pitch you are going to check swing. ?.?.?

I think you mean you check swing when you want and or have no probelms check swinging. Again no one goes into an at bat saying "I'm going to check swing the next pitch"

[Altimus]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

Yeah, check swing is all reaction.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I am a bit confused and I think you aren't understanding what he's saying.
No one check swings "on purpose". When I hear that it sounds like you know ahead of time that the next pitch you are going to check swing. ?.?.?

I think you mean you check swing when you want and or have no problems check swinging. Again no one goes into an at bat saying "I'm going to check swing the next pitch"

I deleted my longer response (since this topic is being WAY over-analyzed by some...lol) to simply say this: I agree you don't predetermine you will check-swing. I took him to mean intent upon use, not predetermined intent.

What I meant is when I perform one in-game, it's intentional and important to how I approach an AB. As I said though, it's all moot now that the function will be there.

[ericjwm]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I went back and played some MLB 2K9 last night and the AI checks their swing quite a bit, with umpire appeals, etc. I really hope they left the AI part of it in as well.

Well as of now it's not a matter of them leaving it in, but putting it back in so that the CPU reacts more human like. Unless of course they initially just had the check swing for the AI and now realized the user needs it also.

Just wanted to bring this up so if by some chance a 2K developer looks upon these boards, they might recognize this before the patch releases. But like another poster mentioned it might be too time consuming to implement for the AI at this point.

[Blzer]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I am a bit confused and I think you aren't understanding what he's saying.
No one check swings "on purpose". When I hear that it sounds like you know ahead of time that the next pitch you are going to check swing. ?.?.?

I think you mean you check swing when you want and or have no probelms check swinging. Again no one goes into an at bat saying "I'm going to check swing the next pitch"

Exactly, which was one of the biffs I had with the defensive swing mechanic (until I found out that the contact swing was mapped completely differently than I originally thought).

The thing in baseball is that we have it in our mind that we are ready to swing at a pitch because we believe it's going to be in the strike zone. Thinking otherwise would be foolish in that you would be too late to react by swinging rather than react by not swinging. The basic philosophy is we see a pitch as a strike until it is a ball, not the other way around. Same reasoning behind why we look fastball and adjust to an off-speed pitch, as doing the opposite would result in a terrible fastball adjustment.

That said, before they officially announced check swings, before it was either we swung or we didn't. There was no in-between, no matter where it was. If I was a little league coach, the last thing I'd be telling my kids is, "Remember, listen to your instincts... if at any point during the pitch you decide to swing, go with that gut instinct." Even if it's a slight hand twitch or hip flinch, that is still the start of a swing. For us, it's the tiniest going of the analog stick. If we have nothing to keep us in check, we would be in big trouble. It's important to be able to swing instinctively (or at least start swinging) and check as a reaction to our swing.


By the way, EnigmaNemesis... you look different. New haircut?

[ericjwm]

Re: Upcoming Patch (Check Swing Added)

I would love to see CPU vs CPU videos for a half inning or so. So we can get a better gauge of the CPUs tendencies.

Definitely. That would do wonders in reassuring everyone that they REALLY worked on getting this game back to a realistic level. Afterall, the AI's ability and logic determines the users enjoyment while playing a franchise. The controls and input responsiveness can be as perfect as anything, but if the AI isn't up to snuff and believeable, then it won't matter a bit.
With the horrendous hacking of the cpu batters last year, 2K needed to release something like this (cpu vs cpu) themeselves just to demonstrate the (hopefully) improved and revamped pitcher/batter logic.