TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

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  • itbeme23
    Pro
    • Sep 2007
    • 875

    #1

    TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

    I've been playing this game consistently since I got it at midnight on Tuesday. I've played between 10-15 games, so I think I've developed enough of a sample size in order to make this determination.

    With the help of another forum member (Blazzen), I feel that we've come up with a solid base set of sliders in order to get this baseball season started. IMHO, everything seems to be playing realistically, at least for a base set. However, there are two very huge issues that I think need to be patched, whenever 2K decides to do so. One of them has the potential to be a GAME KILLER.

    1) CPU Pitcher Fatigue - I had Roy Halladay throw a 149 pitch complete game on me yesterday. Granted, he's arguably the best pitcher in the game today, but in all the research that I've done, the most pitches he's thrown in one game is 130. This caused me to raise the Pitcher Fatigue slider to 70. It helped to a certain extent, but then I saw pitchers getting tired in the 4th inning. So, I finally settled on 65, and I've played my last five games using this setting. At first, I thought it was helping, but as the CPU begins to tire in the 4th and 5th innings after throwing 80-85 pitches, they all of a sudden are rejuvinated in the 6th because their stamina rating jumps! In effect, I've been seeing mediocre pitchers consistently go into the 7th and 8th innings after throwing over 100 pitches. Something has got to give there.

    2) USER PITCH COUNTS/A.I. AGGRESSIVENESS AT THE PLATE!!!!
    IMO, this is the issue that has the potential to be a game-killer. Again, I've played nearly 15 games using different types of Human Pitching sliders, and NOTHING has helped with this. I even went with the default Legend Pitching sliders, and it still didn't do anything. The last game that I played was Dodgers (ME) vs. Mets. Everything was great in that game as far as scores, hits, and CPU Pitching (except for the previously-mentioned fatigue issue), but I couldn't feel that great about it because of one thing: PITCH COUNT. Through six full innings, Clayton Kershaw threw 59 pitches. To me, that is unacceptable in a baseball sim. I know Kershaw is a great pitcher, and I'm a HUGE Dodger fan, but I also know that he is notorious for his high pitch count, which is why he hasn't usually pitched passed the 5th inning the past couple of years. The CPU doesn't work the count nearly as much as they should, and it's becoming increasingly apparent the more games I play. If I had to estimate, the CPU is seeing between 2-3 pitches per at-bat, which completely goes against the entire "Battle at the Plate" concept that 2K has pushed this whole time. It is a great idea in PRINCIPLE, but you can't have a battle at the plate if the CPU isn't taking pitches or even fouling them off. Period.

    The reason I say this is a game killer is because this issue is a carryover from last year's game. I had this very same issue from the moment I bought 2K9 all the way until I traded it in a couple of months later, and that was WITH a patch.

    I'm curious to see if anybody else has experience these issues, particualarly the second. I've seen the fatigue issue mentioned in other threads, so hopefully 2K will fix that.

    Cheers.
  • crumpled_heap
    MVP
    • Feb 2003
    • 1364

    #2
    Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

    also you can't make your pinch hitter stay in the game

    Comment

    • Picci
      MVP
      • Feb 2003
      • 4517

      #3
      Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

      Originally posted by itbeme23
      I've been playing this game consistently since I got it at midnight on Tuesday. I've played between 10-15 games, so I think I've developed enough of a sample size in order to make this determination.

      With the help of another forum member (Blazzen), I feel that we've come up with a solid base set of sliders in order to get this baseball season started. IMHO, everything seems to be playing realistically, at least for a base set. However, there are two very huge issues that I think need to be patched, whenever 2K decides to do so. One of them has the potential to be a GAME KILLER.

      1) CPU Pitcher Fatigue - I had Roy Halladay throw a 149 pitch complete game on me yesterday. Granted, he's arguably the best pitcher in the game today, but in all the research that I've done, the most pitches he's thrown in one game is 130. This caused me to raise the Pitcher Fatigue slider to 70. It helped to a certain extent, but then I saw pitchers getting tired in the 4th inning. So, I finally settled on 65, and I've played my last five games using this setting. At first, I thought it was helping, but as the CPU begins to tire in the 4th and 5th innings after throwing 80-85 pitches, they all of a sudden are rejuvinated in the 6th because their stamina rating jumps! In effect, I've been seeing mediocre pitchers consistently go into the 7th and 8th innings after throwing over 100 pitches. Something has got to give there.

      2) USER PITCH COUNTS/A.I. AGGRESSIVENESS AT THE PLATE!!!!
      IMO, this is the issue that has the potential to be a game-killer. Again, I've played nearly 15 games using different types of Human Pitching sliders, and NOTHING has helped with this. I even went with the default Legend Pitching sliders, and it still didn't do anything. The last game that I played was Dodgers (ME) vs. Mets. Everything was great in that game as far as scores, hits, and CPU Pitching (except for the previously-mentioned fatigue issue), but I couldn't feel that great about it because of one thing: PITCH COUNT. Through six full innings, Clayton Kershaw threw 59 pitches. To me, that is unacceptable in a baseball sim. I know Kershaw is a great pitcher, and I'm a HUGE Dodger fan, but I also know that he is notorious for his high pitch count, which is why he hasn't usually pitched passed the 5th inning the past couple of years. The CPU doesn't work the count nearly as much as they should, and it's becoming increasingly apparent the more games I play. If I had to estimate, the CPU is seeing between 2-3 pitches per at-bat, which completely goes against the entire "Battle at the Plate" concept that 2K has pushed this whole time. It is a great idea in PRINCIPLE, but you can't have a battle at the plate if the CPU isn't taking pitches or even fouling them off. Period.

      The reason I say this is a game killer is because this issue is a carryover from last year's game. I had this very same issue from the moment I bought 2K9 all the way until I traded it in a couple of months later, and that was WITH a patch.

      I'm curious to see if anybody else has experience these issues, particualarly the second. I've seen the fatigue issue mentioned in other threads, so hopefully 2K will fix that.

      Cheers.
      I agree with you.......I can live with all the other ailments but these 2 issues are serious. You can also add that there isn't also enough errors in the game too. I've seen 1 error in 15 games played so far which is also killing it for me.

      Comment

      • jeffy777
        MVP
        • Jan 2009
        • 3325

        #4
        Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

        The first issue is definitely a problem.

        The second one, I'm not really seeing it. Check this thread:
        http://www.operationsports.com/forum...g-strikes.html

        Comment

        • tril
          MVP
          • Nov 2004
          • 2914

          #5
          Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

          on default I haven't noticed this yet.

          pitch counts are high for the cpu because Im patient at the plate. teh CPU throws enough balls, and enough pitches are fouled off to keep the numbers honest.

          the only time the number drops is when I start hacking at the plate. This usually happens when Im either down by a few runs or when I havent gotten a hit in 3-4 innings.

          this is all human nature, not AI logic.

          the 4/5 starters have been pulled on average in the 6th inning. 1-3 starters varies alot.

          I play on pro and havent adjusted any sliders yet. getting good games so far. Im also playing my exhibition/preseason games now of my franchise.

          Comment

          • Bob Digital
            Rookie
            • Feb 2010
            • 112

            #6
            Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

            Originally posted by tril
            on default I haven't noticed this yet.

            pitch counts are high for the cpu because Im patient at the plate. teh CPU throws enough balls, and enough pitches are fouled off to keep the numbers honest.

            the only time the number drops is when I start hacking at the plate. This usually happens when Im either down by a few runs or when I havent gotten a hit in 3-4 innings.

            this is all human nature, not AI logic.
            I don't think he could've been any more clear when he said, " 2) USER PITCH COUNTS/A.I. AGGRESSIVENESS AT THE PLATE!!!! "

            He's sayin' the AI batters are too aggressive. You're talkin' about the opposite.

            Comment

            • Blazzen
              Pro
              • Mar 2008
              • 786

              #7
              Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

              I agree on both points.

              1) CPU seems to stick with starters a little bit too long, but then again if you put up some runs on them they will pull them. The 140 pitch complete game is really odd. I'm thinking somewhere around 60 will be a good number to use for pitcher fatigue. In the olden days it wasn't uncommon for a pitcher to throw 150 pitches in one game but in today's game most guys are out after 100ish pitches. I did have Johan Santana pitch into the 10th inning on me with a default 50 for pitcher fatigue but I haven't had any issues with cpu pitcher fatigue after raising it to 60 or 65. The only issue now is user pitchers tiring too quickly. I think 60 will end up being a happy medium setting for pitcher fatigue.

              2) The user pitch count is a problem. I think more CPU foul balls would help to be honest. The user can run up the CPU pitch count by using defensive swing and fouling pitches off but I haven't seen the CPU do this very often.

              The way a user pitches will effect this too. If you find the cpu is swinging a lot early in the count, DONT THROW STRIKES. You will not only increase your pitch count but you will be more successful when they swing at junk. Sliders and coding changes can only help this so much. If you are throwing a lot of stirkes or a lot of first pitch fastballs for strikes (I had to break this habit myself) then you will have this issue.

              I did have a game last night with Tommy Hanson where I walked 5 batters in 4 innings and threw about 95 pitches with Hanson. 2 of those walks were non-intentional, intentional walks where I pitched around the 8th slot hitter, but several other walks were not intentional and I even walked in a run when the friggin pitcher was batting. If you need help making yourself have to nibble a bit more, raise the CPU contact/power sliders to make them better hitters and you'll find yourself keeping away from the plate more often.
              Last edited by Blazzen; 03-05-2010, 08:57 AM.
              GamerTag: Blazzen85
              MLB: Atlanta Braves
              NFL: Carolina Panthers
              NBA: Charlotte Hornets
              NHL: Carolina Hurricanes

              Comment

              • GOBLUE_08
                Pro
                • Aug 2008
                • 833

                #8
                Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                The ai agressivness at the plate is the same issue from last year where 2k screwed up the inside edge and gave everybody like a D walk rating. I haven't payed much attention to inside edge yet this year but that could be the issue. What I have noticed though is if your not mixing up your pitches and throwing balls the the cpu is gonna hack. I'm playing on pc and I have definitely noticed the cpu taking plenty of walks.

                Comment

                • RoyalBoyle78
                  Aka."Footballforever"
                  • May 2003
                  • 23918

                  #9
                  Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                  I play with pitcher fatigue at 85 right now, yes my pitcher gets tired, but so does the AI.
                  N.Y Mets
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                  Twitter - @RoyalBoyle78
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                  Comment

                  • Blazzen
                    Pro
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 786

                    #10
                    Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                    Originally posted by GOBLUE_08
                    The ai agressivness at the plate is the same issue from last year where 2k screwed up the inside edge and gave everybody like a D walk rating. I haven't payed much attention to inside edge yet this year but that could be the issue. What I have noticed though is if your not mixing up your pitches and throwing balls the the cpu is gonna hack. I'm playing on pc and I have definitely noticed the cpu taking plenty of walks.
                    They've already said that the "D walk rating" is a cosmetic issue only and that patient hitters have better walk ratings than non patient hitters. It's also supposed to be fixed in the patch.
                    GamerTag: Blazzen85
                    MLB: Atlanta Braves
                    NFL: Carolina Panthers
                    NBA: Charlotte Hornets
                    NHL: Carolina Hurricanes

                    Comment

                    • skeezapleez
                      Rookie
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 162

                      #11
                      Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                      I'm definitely going to have to bump the pitcher fatigue slider. I was playing a "My Player" game on release day and on my at-bat it said the opposing pitcher(keep in mind this is the minors) had a pitch count of 146 or something ridiculous.

                      Comment

                      • AustinOrgans
                        Rookie
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 63

                        #12
                        Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                        Originally posted by Blazzen
                        They've already said that the "D walk rating" is a cosmetic issue only and that patient hitters have better walk ratings than non patient hitters. It's also supposed to be fixed in the patch.
                        That's what 2K says. They lie. I have empirical proof that the AI is too aggressive every time I throw a complete game under 80 pitches. This needs to be patched.

                        Comment

                        • Blazzen
                          Pro
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 786

                          #13
                          Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                          Originally posted by AustinOrgans
                          That's what 2K says. They lie. I have empirical proof that the AI is too aggressive every time I throw a complete game under 80 pitches. This needs to be patched.
                          On July 22, 1997, Maddux threw a complete game with just 76 pitches, against the Cubs.

                          While I agree a little bit less AI aggressiveness would be nice, I think more foul balls will help pitch count a lot too. That and the user throwing less strikes.
                          GamerTag: Blazzen85
                          MLB: Atlanta Braves
                          NFL: Carolina Panthers
                          NBA: Charlotte Hornets
                          NHL: Carolina Hurricanes

                          Comment

                          • JBH3
                            Marvel's Finest
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 13506

                            #14
                            Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                            I guess my experience has been backwards to some extent. Due to editing contracts I've only played a handful of games, and my most recent was a spring training game pitting Roy Halladay against Nick Blackburn.

                            With Halladay I walked Mike Cuddyer on a 3-2 count, and I was finding the CPU batters being very selective at the plate. This was on default PRO.

                            However, facing Nick Blackburn he was throwing strike after strike. I moved the CPU strike zone tendency down to 35, thought he was throwing not enough strikes then, so I moved it up a click to 40, and was seeing good results and better CPU pitcher pitch counts.
                            Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                            All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                            Comment

                            • itbeme23
                              Pro
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 875

                              #15
                              Re: TWO GLARING ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE PATCHED!!

                              My main issue is the consistently low user pitch counts. I am also a very patient hitter, and I usually get the CPU to average at least 17-20 pitches per inning, sometimes even more. I currently have the CPU Strike Zone Tendency slider at 50, and I'm still able to work the count and draw 2-3 walks per game. Again, I think that the CPU side of things (aside from the buggy fatigue) is actually pretty good.

                              I think I'm overly frustrated about this issue because it's a carbon-copy of the problem from last year. Only this time the entire hitting AND pitching systems have been built from the ground up! That is the most frustrating and disappointing aspect of this entire issue.

                              I seriously hope that SOMEBODY (ANYBODY) from 2K reads this thread. Again, this game is a big step forward from last year's effort, but I'll stick with my belief that this has the potential to KILL the experience.

                              In the meantime, I'm going to start throwing more balls to see if that helps with the pitch count. I know you're supposed to mix up your pitches with balls and strikes, but to me, it would be ideal to throw strikes early in the count to get ahead of the hitter, then mix in a ball or two to get him to swing at a bad pitch. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like we'll be able to work the user pitchers the way we want.

                              Comment

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