Pitching and role of control ratings

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  • jeffy777
    MVP
    • Jan 2009
    • 3325

    #1

    Pitching and role of control ratings

    It seems 2K is on the right track with the right stick gesture pitching. It's a very fun and rewarding mechanic which has been improved this year. However, there still seems to be a substantial flaw, and that is the role of the pitcher's control rating for each pitch type.

    From what I can tell, the control ratings decide how accurate you need to be with the right stick for each pitch. So if a pitcher has a 90 control rating for a slider, you don't have to be as careful with the gesture as you would if he had a 60 control rating with his slider. But as long as you perform the gesture accurately, the pitch will go right where you want despite the pitch control rating.

    The big problem here is that once we master the right stick gestures, we can pitch with perfect accuracy, regardless of who is on the mound. The wildest pitcher in the MLB can pitch like Greg Maddux as long as you perform the right stick motion correctly.

    This doesn't seem quite the way it should be. The control rating needs play more of a role and be more of a deciding factor in terms of pitch location. It's just way too easy to nail you spots even with scrub pitchers, which really hurts the realism of the game.

    If a pitcher has a low control rating for a pitch, that pitch should not go exactly where you want it just because you nail the gesture perfectly each time. There should be a certain amount of variance/randomness based upon the control rating. So a slider with a control rating of 60 should be more random than a slider with a control rating of 90, but that doesn't apppear the case in this game because everything is tied way too tightly to the gestures.

    Right now, this is my main gripe with this game (It's a good game overall), but this bothers me to the point that I'm already getting tired of pitching because it's too easy and there doesn't seem to be any way to make it more challanging.

    I even tried switching to classic pitching in hopes that it would rely more on the control rating, but it's even easier to pinpoint with amazing accuracy, even after editing all my pitcher's control ratings to the minimum of 25.

    I find myself throwing out of the zone on purpose just to get realistic pitch counts, which isn't really that fun (yes, I know guys throw balls in real life on purpose to get hitters to chase, but they can't throw it exactly where they want it every single time, and they also throw out of the zone on accident, which rarely ever happens in this game once you get good with the gestures). It should be a challange to pitch accurately with medicore pitchers in this game and it just isn't, which is too bad because I do like this game otherwise. It looks like I'll be super summing most of my pitching so I can get to the more enjoyable batting experience.

    I know others have had similar frustrations with gesture pitching in the past. I remember reading some excellent posts from trevy on this subject. I know he can express this better than I can, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

    Let's hope 2K takes this into account and makes the pitching experience even more realistic next year, though I have a feeling they won't because this pinpoint accuracy aspect has been in the game for years, and they said in interviews/insights that they don't want any random aspects in their game, but they want it so that if you throw an innacurate pitch then it is a direct result of the gesture and not related to the control rating of the pitcher on the mound. If they want this game to be realistic, then pitch control ratings need to play a bigger role.
    Last edited by jeffy777; 03-09-2010, 12:36 AM.
  • duke776
    MVP
    • Nov 2006
    • 3044

    #2
    Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

    I agree with you 100%. It's way to easy to pinpoint pitches, just about every ball I throw is on purpose. Only time I really throw balls on accident is when the ball cursor is shaking, or when I'm thowing curveballs, only gestures I have trouble with.

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    • SeerMagicX
      Rookie
      • Feb 2007
      • 216

      #3
      Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

      turn up CPU hitting if you want better pitch counts.

      I do agree that's it's too pinpoint. however if you turn up the cpu hitting, you have to nibble the corners at all times and never let a pitch get much of the plate or you pay the price. since i cranked up cpu hitting, I walk several batters every game. In a recent game with jarrod washburn, I walked 3 batters in the first inning, 5 for the game.

      Comment

      • jeffy777
        MVP
        • Jan 2009
        • 3325

        #4
        Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

        Originally posted by SeerMagicX
        turn up CPU hitting if you want better pitch counts.

        I do agree that's it's too pinpoint. however if you turn up the cpu hitting, you have to nibble the corners at all times and never let a pitch get much of the plate or you pay the price. since i cranked up cpu hitting, I walk several batters every game. In a recent game with jarrod washburn, I walked 3 batters in the first inning, 5 for the game.
        That doesn't solve the pinpoint accuracy problem, but it's about the only thing we can do at this point.

        Comment

        • Trevytrev11
          MVP
          • Nov 2006
          • 3259

          #5
          Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

          Ideally, they need to bring back the third step in pitching process from 2K8 (at least as an option), in which you had to also time the release of the stick to nail your accuracy. (essentially you controlled all three aspects of the pitch: effort, quality and location).

          Also, and I've probably been saying this for years, they need to have variable sized areas of accuracy for each pitcher and of course a rating that defines this (preferably for every pitch, but still a huge step in the right direction if its just overall).

          A perfectly executed Barry Zito or Umbaldo Jiminez fastball should still have a bit of variability to where it will actually land (maybe the size of a volleyball or basketball) where as a perfectly executed Roy Halladay fastball would be in a much smaller defined area (maybe only the size of a grapefruit or something).

          And then of course add a slider so that you can minimize or maximize the impact of this rating. With the slider at 0, you basically eliminate this rating and the location of the pitch is 100% based on your execution of the pitch.

          Comment

          • reo
            Pro
            • Aug 2003
            • 573

            #6
            Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

            Good ideas trev. Also, why a location indicator at all? If I remember correctly, that's how High Heat did it. We do not need rumbling to let us know we are outside the zone too.

            Comment

            • Trevytrev11
              MVP
              • Nov 2006
              • 3259

              #7
              Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

              Originally posted by reo
              Good ideas trev. Also, why a location indicator at all? If I remember correctly, that's how High Heat did it. We do not need rumbling to let us know we are outside the zone too.
              I agree with this. Leave it as an option as everyone has different preferences, but let us make it as difficult as possible if we want to.

              As far as what I was saying, these areas would be invisible if you hid the cursor, but there behind the scenes. You wouldn't see the basketball sized area you are aiming for...it would just be built in to the outcome of the pitch.

              Even if you wanted to see the cursor/indicator, it could always be the same size on the screen, the impact would just be realized on the actual outcome of the pitch.
              Last edited by Trevytrev11; 03-09-2010, 11:42 AM.

              Comment

              • reo
                Pro
                • Aug 2003
                • 573

                #8
                Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                I agree with this. Leave it as an option as everyone has different preferences, but let us make it as difficult as possible if we want to.

                As far as what I was saying, these areas would be invisible if you hid the cursor, but there behind the scenes. You wouldn't see the basketball sized area you are aiming for...it would just be built in to the outcome of the pitch.

                Even if you wanted to see the cursor/indicator, it could always be the same size on the screen, the impact would just be realized on the actual outcome of the pitch.
                True, true, true. I understand. Good ideas.

                Comment

                • jeffy777
                  MVP
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 3325

                  #9
                  Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                  Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                  Ideally, they need to bring back the third step in pitching process from 2K8 (at least as an option), in which you had to also time the release of the stick to nail your accuracy. (essentially you controlled all three aspects of the pitch: effort, quality and location).

                  Also, and I've probably been saying this for years, they need to have variable sized areas of accuracy for each pitcher and of course a rating that defines this (preferably for every pitch, but still a huge step in the right direction if its just overall).

                  A perfectly executed Barry Zito or Umbaldo Jiminez fastball should still have a bit of variability to where it will actually land (maybe the size of a volleyball or basketball) where as a perfectly executed Roy Halladay fastball would be in a much smaller defined area (maybe only the size of a grapefruit or something).

                  And then of course add a slider so that you can minimize or maximize the impact of this rating. With the slider at 0, you basically eliminate this rating and the location of the pitch is 100% based on your execution of the pitch.
                  Exactly. I really wish 2K would listen to this. The pitching experience has a lot of potential, and this would make it outstanding.

                  Comment

                  • TimLawNYC
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 340

                    #10
                    Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                    Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                    Ideally, they need to bring back the third step in pitching process from 2K8 (at least as an option), in which you had to also time the release of the stick to nail your accuracy. (essentially you controlled all three aspects of the pitch: effort, quality and location).

                    Also, and I've probably been saying this for years, they need to have variable sized areas of accuracy for each pitcher and of course a rating that defines this (preferably for every pitch, but still a huge step in the right direction if its just overall).

                    A perfectly executed Barry Zito or Umbaldo Jiminez fastball should still have a bit of variability to where it will actually land (maybe the size of a volleyball or basketball) where as a perfectly executed Roy Halladay fastball would be in a much smaller defined area (maybe only the size of a grapefruit or something).

                    And then of course add a slider so that you can minimize or maximize the impact of this rating. With the slider at 0, you basically eliminate this rating and the location of the pitch is 100% based on your execution of the pitch.
                    I'm also a big fan of the pitching system as they had it in 2K8; the 3-step pitching was much more fun, more challenging, and more realistic than the simplified version they started in 2K9. With the release-timing aspect, much more variability existed in the eventual location of the pitch; I think it was still the case that if the player executed everything perfectly, the pitch would go where you planned, but it was very difficult to get all three aspects perfect; the timing indicator, in particular, moved extremely fast when your pitcher had a low control rating or was tired. This was great because it still gave you the opportunity to pitch a great game, if you were "in the zone" that day and timing everything perfectly, but the margin for error became smaller as the game went on and a small mistake in timing could make a noticeable difference in the eventual spot of the pitch. I really think just bringing back the pitching mechanic from 2K8 would go a long way toward solving this problem.

                    Comment

                    • rudyjuly2
                      Cade Cunningham
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 14816

                      #11
                      Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                      Totally agree with Trevytrev. A perfect gesture shouldn't always be perfectly accurate and we need a slider to affect this if we like.

                      The good thing for me is that I'm not that good at the gestures so I don't have a problem with pitching. I get hit fairly hard and I don't have to try lol.

                      Comment

                      • jeffy777
                        MVP
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 3325

                        #12
                        Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                        I also don't like how if you even slightly mess up a gesture then the AI will know and hack at it almost every time, even if it's a pitch they wouldn't normally swing at (like a 3-0 pitch). I think this also makes the AI seem more aggressive, because if you use classic pitching, the AI doesn't swing nearly as much, because there are no gestures to mess up.

                        Comment

                        • Trevytrev11
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 3259

                          #13
                          Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                          Originally posted by jeffy777
                          I also don't like how if you even slightly mess up a gesture then the AI will know and hack at it almost every time, even if it's a pitch they wouldn't normally swing at (like a 3-0 pitch). I think this also makes the AI seem more aggressive, because if you use classic pitching, the AI doesn't swing nearly as much, because there are no gestures to mess up.
                          Yeah, in this ties into what Blazer brought up in the other post that the hitters seem to know when a mistake is made regardless on the outcome of the pitch. They need to keep these two things independent of each other. The hitter should be reacting solely to what he "see's" not on what the pitcher thinks/feels.

                          Comment

                          • scfan919
                            Rookie
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 114

                            #14
                            Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                            Forget HR's, in the two games I've played, I've been struck out 12+ times each game, and in my "My Player", I have struck out at least 50x's in 20 games. I lowered my settings down to pro, and it seems to have a bit more give for not having to be exactly on, I was on allstar and was getting punished, because I couldn't for the life of me hit the ball, feels like the hit animation is really fast or really slow...but I can say that I ahve hit 2HR's from pure contact swings. One with a 50pwr and the other a 70pwr.
                            Go Cocks!!! 2010 and 2011 CWS Champs!!! BACK 2 BACK
                            R.I.P. Kenny McKinley #11 Forever Eleven

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                            • Blzer
                              Resident film pundit
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 42524

                              #15
                              Re: Pitching and role of control ratings

                              The only thing they really need to do is give us an option to turn off the pitching cursor (or make it invisible in other words). It also wouldn't hurt to give a "variable pitching" option as present in 2K3, where it doesn't always hit exactly where intended even if the gesture is perfected.
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