MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

[geisterhome]

...2K Sports and the MLB agreed on an extension of their license in early 2011 or before.

I think Visual Concepts/2k Sports already didn't put 100% effort into MLB 2k12 since they probably thought it would be the last of their Baseball games. And we all know what happened to MLB 2k13. I really felt they were moving in the right direction with MLB 2k11 and I would be curious to know how this series would look like if not for all that uncertainty of the last 2 years.

Your thoughts?

[Baile]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

I really felt they were moving in the right direction with MLB 2k11 and I would be curious to know how this series would look like if not for all that uncertainty of the last 2 years.

Your thoughts?

While 2K11 was (and is IMO) the best of the bunch, 2K's vision for the series was already moving backwards, not forwards. A year before, 2K decided that in order to compete for gamers' dollars, they had to simplify and dumb down their games in order to attract the "pick-up-and-play crowd" as one 2K exec stated. With both their baseball and hockey titles, they began removing sliders, removing player rating attributes, removing control schemes and features, and simplfying and watering down the graphics as well.

Their problems as a company began years before 2K11, probably when they lost the NFL licence. From 2006 on, they were a sinking ship, and their games fully reflected that. They haven't been moving in the right or positive direction for seven years now.

[Mt Oread]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

I don't think that is an accurate portrayal at all. for one, the MLB 2K series got deep where it mattered, and provided the best gameplay mechanics to bring that to life. They just didn't polish their games and spent no-time trying to match SCEA's graphics engine.

I don't know what went wrong with 2K hockey, other than EA putting out a game that was leaps and bounds better. I loved 2K hockey, and kept hoping they might come back, but NHL 09 was pretty much the end for 2K hockey.

I like the NBA game, but good lord is it far more than I am wanting out of a basketball game. It is hardly pick up and play.

As I've pointed out before, despite getting completely slaughtered in the PR war, sales of 2K baseball have not been nearly as dominated by SCEA as readers of these forums would assume. The extra money and time gamers wanted 2K to put into the game would not result in the good value of additional sales. It's why I had no reasonable hope we would see a game for 2K13.

It wasn't until MLB made the deal worth 2K's while that we got a roster updated version of 2K12 for 2K13.

I still argue that 2K12 and 2K13, despite various issues, are examples of far deeper gameplay than has been done on consoles before. It's not deep in player movement, and getting socks colored properly. But it is in terms of ratings that matter, a solid and innovative use of Inside Edge to drive pitch by pitch strategic play, and a deep assortment of stat tracking.

In fact, it's the pick-up and play guys that fail to see what 2K is offering. You see it in their reviews and in the videos they post. Don't get me wrong, part of the reason it is missed is that 2K failed miserably in educating their fans in how to look at their game, and how to play it.

They did have a great set of blogs last year, but they really needed gameplay videos to show what they were doing, with commentary. There is too much I have learned over the course of several games through trial and error that is not expounded upon by people that should know better. But SCEA has pummeled 2K in PR, so that leaves 2K with guys that are already enamored with The Show with very little interest in diving into the game.

Read the Show forums. There are all kinds of issues with that game, but there is also a calvary of mods and CD guys to correct misperceptions and instruct users. For 2K, the reviews only serve to reinforce the misconceptions.

But at this point, it's all academic. I don't thin 2K is still in the game. If anyone else plays the game, it doesn't affect my enjoyment. All I want is for the 2K forums to at least be a free place to discuss the game without the SCEA defenders constantly stirring up BS. The review OS put up and their "pat ourselves on the back" article about their review only serves to stir up the trolls.

It's too bad, because this is not the case with all of their coverage.

[Baile]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

I don't think that is an accurate portrayal at all. for one, the MLB 2K series got deep where it mattered

What does that mean? How did they "get deep"? In which area of the game?

I'll use the MLB series as an example, but I know some of this applies to their NHL series as well. Over the course of the last 4 years, they've removed k-zone hitting, zone-hitting, step-influence stick control, the step-influence slider, sliders to control pitchers' strike zone accuracy (which allowed gamers set how easy/hard it is to tell balls from strikes), plus other important sliders and player ratings, along with old-time players and classic stadiums. And that's not even a complete list.

Past that, where's the growth, development and new features that other games display? Where's the manage-only mode ala The Show? Why haven't they added a custom team tactics feature, or a custom season mode ala FIFA? Or how about a stadium-creation feature ala PES?

The fact is this series hasn't just gone nowhere when it comes to adding new and different ways of playing the game, it's taken several steps back since 2K9 or so.

[Mt Oread]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

Game mechanics are not indicative of depth. Eliminating mechanics that represent your game poorly is good business.

I believe leaving in obsolete mechanics, as the other game does, leads to underdeveloped gameplay controls and results in games that are less fun to play. Honing in n one or two sets allows the game to be crafted with far fewer variables to account for. For all of its problems, fun gameplay is not the issue with the 2K series.

But what 2K did do was create more dynamic fielding, which does frustrate many. And they created a bevy of ratings with real differences so that who you play and where affects the outcomes.

They doubled down on Inside Edge, providing a ton of good info that you can use to craft plans on how to pitch to different batters, and how to approach different hitters. those ratings also directly affect the choices CPU players makes, from which pitch to throw and where, to when to swing or take.

And there is a pitch accuracy slider that affects how often pitchers will throw out of the zone, and the cameras can be adjusted to give you better views for reading balls and strikes. There isn't a smarter game for hitting. Zone or cursor hitting is about twitch and actually dumbs down the process. By relying on timing, you get each players ability to affect how wel they hit high or low, inside ort outside pitches, instead of cramming on the gamers ability instead.

The game may not be deep the way you want it, but it provides me a ton of info that I use to make decisions on every pitch. If anything, it's weakness is that pick-up and play guys miss a ton of what is there. and since that is the prevailing idea that SCEA has pushed, guys that prefer The Show play the game that way and reinforce that idea.

None of this means the game is good or bad. If anyone plays the game, and they don't enjoy it, it's ad for them. Period. That goes for any game.

So the game may have gone bad for you, but I'd argue that it wasn't because of te derogatory "pick-up and play" meme Show guys started using last year. It came straight from the CD guys, and I guarantee you it was how SCEA positioned their game to them in order to minimize the effect of so many people saying that they thought The Show was better, but 2K was more fun.

2K12 Diaries

http://www.facebook.com/notes/mlb-2k/mlb-2k12-developer-diary-1-gameplay-part-1/10150605901018194

http://www.facebook.com/notes/mlb-2k/mlb-2k12-developer-diary-2-gameplay-part-2/10150629124888194?comment_id=21233696

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150641585298194

[pistolpete]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

I like the NBA game, but good lord is it far more than I am wanting out of a basketball game. It is hardly pick up and play.

Try casual gameplay mode. It's really a lot of fun.

[Tomba]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...
<hr style="color:#393939" size="1">
They made new adboards

[niharjhatn]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

I agree with you Oread.

There is a level of depth in mlb 2k that is quite hidden initially. I also believe that ultimately as a hardcore sports gamer, the onus is on YOU to create a fun experience. I think its stupid when people b**** about lots of things that are fixed with slider edits and roster tweaks.

That said, 2k have done a horrible job (as always) explaining these things to the player - like Johhny W mentions above, he doesn't understand some of the subtleties in 2k hitting. I wish they kept the stride timing though.

Sigh, lets hope someone decent gets the mlb contract to make a competing baseball game EARLY rather than late.

At this moment I think the only hope is Konami do something to bring Pro Yakyuu for english audiences.

[Baile]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

like Johhny W mentions above, he doesn't understand some of the subtleties in 2k hitting.

The subtleties of timing-only hitting? What's to know besides the fact that unlike real baseball and zone hitting, timing-only fails to take pitch height into consideration? You and Oread should drop by SDSU and run your theory by Tony Gwynn. Tell him that all a batter has to do to make contact is swing through the middle of the strike zone each and every time, regardless of whether the pitch is at the letters or at the knees. Then get back to me with Tony's response.

This thread is about 2K's direction for this series and how this game could have been truly great. It's not about how much you and Oread happen to prefer timing-only hitting. Regardless, you and Oread say the game is still very deep. I provided a short list of everything that was removed from this game. So your turn now. Please make a list of all the "depth" 2K has added the past few years to compensate for all the stuff that's been removed.

In terms of features, options and graphics, this game is a stripped-down, barebones 2K8-9. 2K started removing options a few years back to make the game more accessible for the pick-up-and-play online crowd, their new target audience in the war for gamers' dollars. That was their vision: to simplify the game so as to appeal to casual gamers. A 2K rep discussed this in an online interview (and no Oread, this was not a creation of The Show forum). Whether this easily-accessable, online-oriented game is your thing or not, isn't the discussion. The question is where was this series headed the past few years, and how would the game look today if 2K had continued to put some effort and money into it? And I say it would have looked like the game we have now, only with less and less offline options each year as they catered more and more to online gamers.

[Baile]

Re: MLB 2K13 could have been a truly great game if...

They doubled down on Inside Edge, providing a ton of good info that you can use to craft plans on how to pitch to different batters, and how to approach different hitters.

I acknowledge IE has been worked on the past 2-3 years and has became this game's primary feature-focus, apart from the easy-to-access online-oriented gameplay itself.

The thing is though, IE is a half-developed and poorly implemented feature. IE isn't dynamic and is therefore pointless after a few weeks of franchise play. In real life, players' IE stats change week to week, season to season. But in 2K they remain static throughout the player's entire career. Do franchise gamers really want to know that the best way to get Mike Trout out is throw him outside curveballs for the next 10 seasons?

Plus, new players coming up -- created and fake players -- have no IE stats at all. That's not deep, that's shallow with very little thought or effort put into it. It could be if 2K had more time and money, that they would have continued refining IE in future editions of the game, sure. But again, their focus with 2K baseball for 3 years now has been to make the game online-friendly while removing more and more offline options and features. So who knows.