We want SIM! We want SIM!

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  • baa7
    Banned
    • Jul 2004
    • 11691

    #1

    We want SIM! We want SIM!

    I’m aware the 9 of us who are actually still playing this game are all sick of hearing about the bugs, glitches and game play issues… but I really do have to share my observations regarding the AI Skill slider, and the fact it makes or breaks aspects of how realistically and sim-like this game plays.

    I’ve been saying since the first week the game came out: the AI Skill slider acts like a CPU auto-hit cheat. It “auto-directs” the ball into the gaps between 3B and SS, 2B and 1B, LF and CF, and CF and RF.

    I started a season a few days ago with AI Skill @ 30, the lowest I can set it without the CPU striking out all the time. But I find it pointless to keep playing. No matter where I shift my IF and OF, the AI Skill slider causes the ball to hit the gaps, time and time again. Shift left and the CPU finds the right gap. Shift right, the left gap. Shifts are a big part of the game, and the AI Skill slider makes it a redundant exercise.

    Basically, the game program is reading where you have your shift, and then causes the ball to go where your players aren’t. It’s a cheesy kind of programming cheat that’s showing up more and more in games, and I assume that’s because it’s quick and easy to program. Given how complex these games are becoming, companies and programmers don’t have a lot of time to come up with more creative programming choices is my guess.

    Anyway: with AI Skill @ 0, you see a full variety of hits, plus you see the ball traveling to random locations around the field and park. But more than that: NOT just random. With AI Skill @ 0, the ball off the bat begins to realistically react to WHERE YOU PITCH to the batter. That’s CRITICAL, because now one can, say, shift the IF left and pitch inside to a right-handed batter and EXPECT the ball to head directly to 3B if you hit the very inside corner and the batter makes contact. With AI Skill up, that ball wouldn’t head towards 3B. It would find the gap between 3B and SS. And it would find that gap regardless of whether you shifted left or right, or didn’t shift at all.

    You can see all this by performing a test. Pitch fastballs or maybe sinkers, middle of the plate and down. With AI Skill @ 0, the batter will blast a lot of those pitches right back up the middle. With AI Skill up, right-handed batters will hit the ball in the gap between 3B and SS, and left-handed batters will knock the ball between the 2B and 1B gap. It’s that obvious.

    I’m working on my own solutions to all this. For me it first means editing the pitchers on my team – lowering their various individual pitching ratings by 50% (for a start). I’m doing this so I can hopefully drop the AI Skill slider to 0. If my P’s are only half as good, then the CPU has a chance to hit the ball with the AI Skill slider that low. And then I don’t have to edit every pitcher in the league.

    What I’m already seeing however, is that CPU batters’ individual Strikeout (and maybe even Base on Balls) ratings are going to have to be raised. Batters are still striking out too much with their default ratings. But the moment I raise those ratings into the 90 range, I start to see a decent amount of CPU contact. But that’s easy to do – one or two quick edits per CPU batter. Plus I’ve found those ratings (and some others) aren’t particularly accurate compared to their real-life stats, anyway.
  • Dienekes
    Pro
    • Aug 2004
    • 551

    #2
    Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

    Is it really worth it with 2 other good baseball games out...

    Comment

    • baa7
      Banned
      • Jul 2004
      • 11691

      #3
      Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

      Originally posted by Dienekes
      Is it really worth it with 2 other good baseball games out...
      That's a good question actually. Except I don't buy EA products – haven’t for three years now, except I mistakenly purchased FIFA this year before the incomparable WE8 came out. And I don’t own a PS2 but was considering purchasing one just for MLB 2006; that is, until I read a few comments from people here and elsewhere who said it just wasn’t as good as MLB 2K5.

      Comment

      • Dienekes
        Pro
        • Aug 2004
        • 551

        #4
        Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

        Originally posted by baa7
        That's a good question actually. Except I don't buy EA products – haven’t for three years now, except I mistakenly purchased FIFA this year before the incomparable WE8 came out. And I don’t own a PS2 but was considering purchasing one just for MLB 2006; that is, until I read a few comments from people here and elsewhere who said it just wasn’t as good as MLB 2K5.
        I have MVP and 989 MLB for psp and ps2. I have not really played MVP since I got 989's game I think it may be the best of the three this year. The psp version is great too. My copy on ps2 has only froze once in 50 or so games.

        If you want to invest some money pick it up with a psp or get a ps2 and don't forget god of war (worth picking up a ps2 for on it's own).

        Comment

        • inkcil
          All Star
          • Jul 2002
          • 5253

          #5
          Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

          Baa,

          I am feeling you and really admire your work on this game.

          And although I enjoy many aspects of this game and want someone
          like you to come along and fix the things that are wrong with it, I have come to a few conclusions (in order of importance):

          1. Seeing all the work you put in, I actualy want you to be able to ENJOY PLAYING a game. I almost want to tell you to put this game down for a while, and go play another baseball game for a bit to give yourself a break from trying to fix this game.

          2. It sounds very unfair, but the person who posted the thread "this game is unplayable" was not too far from the truth. It is playable, but only b/c of people like you, jim, bigfnjoe and others. Still, with all your efforts, I continue to see glitches that cannot be fixed by tweaking sliders.

          3. Some of the glitches I've seen are so bad that someone actually commented that they didn't beleive me when I posted about it. When a game makes the kind of mistakes where others accuse you of lying, I cannot make that game my primary game - especially when I need the support of other to have an enjoyable experience with the game.

          4. I have HH 2004, heavily modded and up-to-date with rosters on my PC. In other words, there are games that have good gameplay engines AND people there to support the game.

          5. There are 2 other good console games on the market right now. Even if you don't like EA, give MLB a shot - I haven't tried it because I also have only an XBox. But you might like it.

          6. The gamecube is really cheap and who knows what Pennant Chase Baseball will be like.

          I guess I am saying all this to say: This game is fun, has some great aspects to it, but is so broken at its core that it will continue to frustrate some of us to no end. Baa, at least try a second title out.
          Unofficial OS Ambassador of "CPU vs. CPU"

          Now Playing:

          XB1 (Forza Motorsport 6 and Horizon 2)
          Switch (Mario Kart and Zelda)
          PS3 (old 2k games and the Show)

          Comment

          • baa7
            Banned
            • Jul 2004
            • 11691

            #6
            Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

            Originally posted by inkcil
            I am feeling you and really admire your work on this game. I guess I am saying all this to say: This game is fun, has some great aspects to it, but is so broken at its core that it will continue to frustrate some of us to no end. Baa, at least try a second title out.
            inkcil – Thanks for all that. First, I agree this is the most broken sports and/or video game I’ve ever played. It’s unbelievably broken. Whoever was responsible for the QA should be fired – shot, actually.

            I go back to the Hardball series and Sierra’s FPS games. This game reminds me of Hardball 6. That game of course had mega-ratings editing options – except none of them meant very much. Fastball ratings for example could be set from 50 to 99 – except there were only two levels of effectiveness: fastball ratings over 90 and fastball ratings under 90. Players speed ratings could be set anywhere, but when you simmed a season you’d see everyone over 55 speed stole tons of bases and everyone under 55 stole exactly 0.

            Still, Hardball 6 was maybe my favorite baseball game until this game came along. It was somehow just fun. After playing 2K5 for 1-2 days, I was naturally in complete shock and almost tossed it out. I sifted thru my game pile, found ESPN 2K3 and decided I’d just keep playing that this year. But that lasted maybe 5 minutes. 2K5’s presentation really makes other games so incredibly dull. Is there ANY better broadcasting team than John and Joe – in any sport? Not IMO.

            Like I said, I’m editing my P’s right now, and from the several test games I’ve played this looks like it might work. But only for single seasons, which is okay with me. I tend to get pretty attached to my team, and really feel like I’m betraying guys if I trade them. That’s old school sports stuff from the days of Warren Moon and his 5 consecutive Grey Cups with my Eskimos (now that was a TEAM).

            And I’m still looking at getting a PS2. My sweetie keeps hauling me over to EB to get me one – she still owes me a birthday present. I’m the one who keeps looking at it and going: “Umm…” Anyway, thanks again ;-)

            Comment

            • Cardot
              I'm not on InstantFace.
              • Feb 2003
              • 6164

              #7
              Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

              Originally posted by baa7
              I sifted thru my game pile, found ESPN 2K3 and decided I’d just keep playing that this year. But that lasted maybe 5 minutes. 2K5’s presentation really makes other games so incredibly dull.
              I did the same thing recently. 2K3 did some things well, but the atmosphere was so bad. That Carnival music drove me crazy.

              I feel your pain. It reminds me of my struggle with ASB05 last year. The atmosphere, announcing and "baseball feel" were so great, I just couldn't give up on it. But I sure did struggle finding playable settings....and that game didn't even have sliders.

              Comment

              • jim416
                Banned
                • Feb 2003
                • 10606

                #8
                Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                4. I have HH 2004, heavily modded and up-to-date with rosters on my PC. In other words, there are games that have good gameplay engines AND people there to support the game.

                I'm with you. I've never uninstalled the game and have always kept my DangerZ editor handy to keep track of trades. Just put in a new photo pak, new National overlays. I've even edited out some of the aggravating audio and the game still rocks. Every time I go back to it I see something that makes me want to return.

                For example, the other night I have the tying run on 1b, the CPU throws me a ball and a second ball as I steal 2nd base. The CPU then intentionally walked my hitter on an 2-0 count to set up the double play. I grounded into a double play. I don't know of any other game that has an AI this smart.

                MLB2k5. I love/dislike this game. I enjoy the heck out of it with an asterisk, shaking my head at times at what I see, but the presentation and, IMO, pretty good gameplay draw me back. I'm getting so tired of "waiting until next year" with baseball games however.

                MLB2006 is as full of bugs as MLB2k5, lacks roster management that I need. It plays solid baseball, but it has it's problems too and I'm not about to sit around hoping the game doesn't freeze in the 8th inning of a close game. I thought MVP (for the PC) played a good game of ball, but this game lacked the roster managment too, so I live with MLB2k5. Plus MVP looks just like last years game but with really weird looking grass.

                I'm keeping my fingers crossed (again) for Pennant Chase. I'm hoping it's a build on HomeRun Kings. If you didn't play that game it was pretty solid, but needed some umpf.

                I'm this close (holds fingers an inch apart) to just going back to High Heat, but I'm not going to give up on MLB2k5 yet.
                Last edited by jim416; 04-20-2005, 07:31 PM.

                Comment

                • therizing02
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 4176

                  #9
                  Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                  Where are you guys getting the up to date rosters for HH2K4? I have never uninstalled that game.

                  Comment

                  • jim416
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 10606

                    #10
                    Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!



                    He has a great "one pitch mode" for HH 2k4 taken from the HH2k3 game (don't ask me how he did it). It's actually a generated pitch count. I like it because it gives more realistic pitch counts as I'm sort of a free swinger when batting.

                    Comment

                    • therizing02
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2003
                      • 4176

                      #11
                      Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                      Thanks Jim.

                      Just downloaded the roster.

                      Comment

                      • jim416
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 10606

                        #12
                        Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                        I've got several TUNE files for the game if you want me to email them to you. They have different batting views than what came with the game.

                        Comment

                        • inkcil
                          All Star
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 5253

                          #13
                          Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                          therizing,

                          also go to "theperfectgame.net" and register. Sign in and download tim's roster if you don't want to use pudge's one-pitch mode.
                          Unofficial OS Ambassador of "CPU vs. CPU"

                          Now Playing:

                          XB1 (Forza Motorsport 6 and Horizon 2)
                          Switch (Mario Kart and Zelda)
                          PS3 (old 2k games and the Show)

                          Comment

                          • GrandVizier
                            Rookie
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 145

                            #14
                            Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                            quit whining. AI skill has a much less dramatic effect than what you claim it does. maybe you need to learn how to pitch. maybe you should quit screwing with all the ratings and this wouldn't be a problem. i see almost none of this alleged "ball always finding the hole". in fact, i think it doesn't find the hole nearly enough despite me having the skill at 75. go play another game if you have that much of a fundemental problem with this game's programming.

                            Comment

                            • baa7
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 11691

                              #15
                              Re: We want SIM! We want SIM!

                              Originally posted by GrandVizier
                              quit whining. AI skill has a much less dramatic effect than what you claim it does. maybe you need to learn how to pitch. maybe you should quit screwing with all the ratings and this wouldn't be a problem. i see almost none of this alleged "ball always finding the hole". in fact, i think it doesn't find the hole nearly enough despite me having the skill at 75. go play another game if you have that much of a fundemental problem with this game's programming.
                              Nice... so friendly.There's always one of these on every internet forum ;-)

                              Comment

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