Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

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  • Village Idiot
    Probably Insane
    • Sep 2004
    • 2733

    #1

    Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

    After over 120 games, I have finally settled on a combination of sliders and house rules that I presume will carry me for the duration of a full 162-game season. Before I begin, let me present the box scores and statistics from my past 10 games using the Detroit Tigers:

    1. TOR - 0 R, 6 H, 1 E; DET - 12 R, 20 H, 0 E (W)
    2. TOR - 8 R, 10 H, 0 E; DET - 0 R, 5 H, 0 E (L)
    3. TOR - 1 R, 10 H, 1 E; DET - 10 R, 11 H, 1 E (W)
    4. @KC - 8 R, 7 H, 2 E; DET - 9 R, 15 H, 1 E (W)
    5. @KC - 0 R, 5 H, 0 E; DET - 9 R, 10 H, 0 E (W)
    6. @KC - 4 R, 11 H, 0 E; DET - 10 R, 16 H, 1 E (W)
    7. @BAL - 8 R, 13 H, 1 E; DET - 5 R, 7 H, 0 E (L)
    8. @BAL - 6 R, 11 H, 2 E; DET - 5 R, 11 H, 0 E (L)
    9. @BAL - 17 R, 22 H, 0 E; DET - 0 R, 5 H, 0 E (L)
    10. @TOR - 8 R, 11 H, 1 E; DET - 5 R, 10 H, 1 E (L)

    Pitching

    TEAM ERA: 4.64
    SO: 79 (league best:100; league worst: 60)
    BB: 44 (league best: 23; league worst: 54)
    BAA: .274 (league best: .240; league worst: .324)
    HR: 15 (league best: 5; league worst: 18)

    Batting

    AVG: .323 (league best: .326; league worst: .239)
    HR: 9 (league best: 21; league worst: 5)
    BB: 29 (league best: 55; league worst: 25)
    SO: 82 (league best: 56; league worst 100)

    As you can see, things are going pretty well statistically. I've been shutout twice, and I've thrown two shutouts; I've score 8 or more runs five times and have allowed 8 or more runs five times. The way things have unfolded, I'm 99% certain that I won't need to make any significant changes from here on out - maybe a one notch bump here or there, but nothing more.

    Without further delay:

    HOUSE RULES

    Note: These sliders are tailored for use with these rules; therefore, I have no idea how they would play should you elect not to follow them. (Examples of when it's appropriate to ignore them are included below.) Moreover, should you not find these rules to your liking, go ahead and stop reading now; these sliders aren't for you.

    RULE #1: NO LEFT STICK
    In general, this feature is too sensitive. My goal, in turn, was to provide hitter settings that allow for a nice number of HR's without having to bother with 'sometimes using the left stick, sometimes not'. In its absence, I've found that I still get an exceptional number of hits that are true to life - it's just all based on timing opposed to 'aiming'. If you read a pitch correctly, and time your swing correctly, you can still 'do what you want' with the ball. This is no major loss; in fact, it's just one less thing to think about while at the plate.

    RULE #2: NO HITTER'S EYE
    When a guy's Hitter's Eye is at or near 100%, it pretty much covers the entire strike zone - any 'bad' pitch is going to be a meatball. I've found that's plenty enough 'bonus' as it relates to this feature.

    RULE #3: ONLY SWING AT MEATBALLS
    As you'll see below, we'll have the Meatball slider at 100. This, in combination with Rule #2, is what results in a good number of walks, as well as getting the CPU's pitch count nice and high. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule, such as: a) full counts; b) two-strike counts in general; c) 2-0 counts, if you're so inclined. A further exception:

    RULE #3A: ONLY SWING AT THE PROVERBIAL 3-0 FASTBALL WHEN THERE IS AT LEAST ONE RUNNER ON BASE.

    RULE #4: NO SHAKING OFF CATCHER SUGGESTIONS
    That's right: you must throw every pitch where the catcher says, and it must be the pitch he calls for. (The only exception to this rule is when the call is for a pitch that is physically impossible, or is extremely likely to bean the hitter.) This rule is very important. It is the countermeasure for the fact that pitchers are much too accurate. Following it without exception might seem like it takes away the human element (i.e. your ability to call what you want) but, as is likewise the case with Rule #3, it's still up to you to execute. This will tie closely with Rule #5.

    RULE #5: THROW EVERY PITCH PERFECTLY.
    Your goal will be to throw every pitch with 100% effectiveness and hit the EXACT spot called for. This introduces an element of difficulty that is otherwise missing from the game. That is, in order to truly be 'perfect', you must know precisely what pitch does what (and by that I do not mean you must know what a slider does, for example, I mean you must know exactly what each individual pitcher's slider does) and you must, in turn, execute each pitch so that you get that little white flash. The failure to do so will generally result in a hit or a ball. Should you consistently succeed, however, that is when you'll start racking up K's and throwing shutout baseball. (The point here is that you might be surprised how difficult pitching can be when you truly strive for such perfection.)


    Summary of House Rules:

    The basic idea is to force you (the user) into performing at the highest possible level, where the failure to do so will result in a loss. Rule #3, for example, might seem as though it's taking your natural 'eye' out of the equation, but in fact what it does is force you to execute on a dime (I'm still amazed at the number of meatballs I swing and miss at; the feeling of accomplishment that accompanies a base hit or HR off a meatball is equaled only by the feeling of 'letting one get away' when I miss one with two strikes and runners on). Moreover, as I said above, the following sliders work in accordance with these rules. (AI Take and AI Pitching sliders, for example, may or may not make any sense without them.)

    Hope you enjoy.


    THE SLIDERS

    Player Options

    Game Difficulty: CUSTOM
    Dynamic Difficulty: OFF
    Hot and Cold Teams: OFF

    The description of each of these options states that the sliders will automatically alter themselves in accordance to this that or the other. No thanks.
    Batter Contact: 0
    If you're used to something higher, worry not. As we saw above, I'm hitting .326 through 10 games, and, trust me, I'm nothing special.
    Batter Power: 50
    My 9 HR through 10 games speaks for itself. If anything, a bump to 55 could be in order, but I'm holding out for now.
    Batter Influence: 0
    Power Swing: 0
    Step Influence: 0

    The latter two here have no effect with Classic Swing. As for Batter Influence, I made the decision to go with zero with the thinking that I don't want a hitter's statistical (i.e. Inside Edge) inability to hit something to cause me to miss a pitch I would otherwise hit. A player's Power and Contact ratings are enough in this respect.
    Pitcher Difficulty: 0
    I'm biased against this slider. The description says that it increases 'the difficulty to hit good pitchers'. What is a 'good' pitcher, exactly? Again, a pitcher's ratings are enough: there's plenty of difference between a scrub and a superstar without having some obscure slider potentially getting in the way.
    Batter Bunt Assistance: 100
    I don't generally bunt, so when I do, I don't want it to be an adventure. But even with it at 100, I'm still seeing a lot of misses and fouls. Ultimately an arbitrary setting.
    Batter Bunt For Hit: 25
    Again, when I do bunt, I'm not trying for a hit anyway. Ultimately arbitrary.
    Runner Baserunning SPD: 100
    Runner Stealing Success: 80

    Through my 10 games, I've attempted 7 steals and was successful 4 times. As with bunting, I don't care much about this slider and so haven't played with it much. Overall, I haven't seen a need to change it.
    Infielder Errors: 80
    Outfielder Errors: 80

    The interesting thing here, as I've seen others mention as well, is that we're not talking strictly about 'errors', we're talking about throwing accuracy, bobbles, catchers not stopping wild pitches, etc. That is, most of the 'errors' I see do not actually result in an E in on the scorecard; I've yet to see a 3-error game, for example. Also, what's more, it's my understanding that errors count as earned runs? Since walks do not, having a few more errors than is realistic is a roundabout way of getting more realistic ERA numbers. Tit for tat.
    Infielder Speed: 35
    Outfielder Speed: 35
    Throw Speeds: ZEROS
    Reaction Speeds & Speed Burst #'s: ZEROS
    Fielding Aggression: 50
    Pitcher Fatigue: 15

    From what I've seen here, most of you will find this number low. However, in my experience, this number is unquestionable, particularly with respect to Rules #4 & 5 above.
    Pitcher Interface Speed: 100
    Injuries: 50

    I played with injuries off for quite some time, so I know almost nothing about this slider.
    Pitch Speed: 95
    I've found 100 to be the optimal number here in terms of realism, but when I lowered the Contact slider to zero, I bumped this down to 80 just to be safe. Since then, I've been creeping my way back up. It was just today that I felt comfortable moving this from 90 to 95, and I suspect I'll wind up at 100 again before long.


    AI General Options

    Errors: 80
    Speeds: 35
    Throw Speeds: 0
    Aggression: 50
    Throwing Aggression: 70

    At one point I had this number perfect, but lost my sliders (damn saving glitch) and so I'm not sure if this is the correct number. Basically what you're looking for here are those moments when they 'should' have tried to gun down the lead runner but didn't - but you also don't want them gunning for a guy who's clearly going to be safe and subsequently don't get anyone out. A bump one way or the other might be in order here.
    AI Hit 'N Run: 100
    Sacrifice Bunt: 35
    Squeeze: 25
    Run Aggression: 80

    As with Throw Aggression, I'm no longer sure about this number, but so far so good.
    Stealing Success: 85
    I can't find any stat for this, but I can say I've got Pudge behind the plate and he seems to be throwing out about half the attempts, which is right in line with his numbers from last year.
    Steal 2nd: 100
    Steal 3rd: 35
    Steal Home: 15

    Again, with Pudge behind the plate, I cannot be sure if the rate at which the CPU tries to steal is relative to the catcher or not, so these (particularly the Steal 2nd slider) may or may not be appropriate for your team/catcher. But what's most important is that you're put in position to pay close attention to the runner. Real pitchers constantly keep and eye at guys at first, even if they're not steal guys; something's missing if we don't have to do the same.
    Diveback: 95


    AI Batting Options

    AI Batters Use Inside Edge: ON
    Take Strike Overall: 50
    Take Strike Ahead: 50
    Take Strike Behind: 10
    Take Ball Overall: 45
    Take Ball Ahead: 30
    Take Ball Behind: 10

    Basically the thought here is that you want them to 'freak out' a little when behind in the count, and remain relatively cool early in the count and with an even count.
    Skill: 100
    Contact: 30
    Power: 55

    I know the contact slider looks incredibly low, but in conjunction with the House Rules - remember Rules 4 & 5! - trust me, it works out fine. In general, I've found that if you miss on your pitch they'll make contact, and with Power at 60, it's usually good contact; if you hit your spots, conversely, you'll do well. That's the whole idea, isn't it?
    Bunt for Hit: 40
    Never had much of a reason to even look at this. Ultimately arbitrary.
    Pitcher Difficulty: 0
    As above, a guy's 'stuff' will make more than enough difference between your pitchers without this slider getting in the way.
    Effectiveness Mod: 100
    This also speaks to Rules 4 & 5: HIT YOUR SPOTS!


    AI Pitching Options

    Inside Edge: ON
    AI Corner: 0
    Change Speed: 100
    Strike Overall: 25
    Strike Ahead: 25
    Strike Behind: 75
    Fatigue: 35
    Pickoff: 5
    Pitchout: 100
    Meat Pitch: 100

    A detailed explanation here is not necessary. That is, if you follow the House Rules for hitting, the logic behind these numbers should become self-evident. With that said, do not be discouraged should you walk four times in the first inning, or get five or six meatballs right out of the gate; likewise should you play out your first game and only manage a few hits. Each pitcher (needless to say) will be different. For example, in one of my recent games, I walked five times and scored six runs in the first four innings; after the starter was pulled, I proceeded to strikeout 11 times and did not score or walk again. Further, some pitchers, even with the Meat Pitch slider at 100, will go three and four innings without throwing one. It truly becomes a game-to-game, pitcher-to-pitcher situation. Again, that's the whole idea.


    The End.
    Last edited by Village Idiot; 04-03-2007, 12:39 PM.
    I am become death
    Do not underestimate my apathy
    Chances guys who claim a game sucks will cease posting in a forum devoted to that game: 3%
  • Village Idiot
    Probably Insane
    • Sep 2004
    • 2733

    #2
    Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

    Some things I forgot:

    1. I do not purchase Inside Edge reports.

    2. Gameplay Settings:
    Inside Edge: ON
    Catcher Cam: OFF
    Arguments: ON
    Ball Indicator: Dynamic
    Auto Diveback: ON
    Fielder Speed Boost: OFF
    Broken Bat: Sometimes
    Help: OFF


    3. General Presentation:
    Inning Highlights: OFF
    Player Highlights: OFF
    Cutscenes: ON
    Strikezone: Always Off
    Pitch Break Indicator: OFF
    Topline Dropdowns: OFF

    When you shut this off, you lose some statistical information, but it also makes the pitcher/batter interfaces silent (removing the popping sound of the dropdown going up before a pitch). Most importantly, though, it hides the pitchers' stamina percentage. To me, that's a bit of information that, true to the 'sim' attitude, we shouldn't be able to know: pitch count is what is empirical, and that can be accessed in the Game Summary screen if you really 'must' know.
    Keep Fielder in View: ON
    Ball Trail: OFF
    Player Icon: NONE


    4. Controls:
    Batting Camera: Classic
    Zoom: 22
    Pitching Camera: Behind Pitcher
    Pitching Interface: Payoff
    Pitch Point: Breakpoint
    Batting Interface: Classic
    Batter's Eye: OFF
    Batter's Eye Feedback: OFF
    Vibration: OFF
    Auto-Round Bases: ON
    Assisted Baserunning: OFF
    Smart Throw: OFF
    Auto-Reselect Fielder: OFF
    Hold Runners: Smart Hold
    Catcher Suggestions: ON
    Tips: OFF
    Last edited by Village Idiot; 04-02-2007, 08:19 PM.
    I am become death
    Do not underestimate my apathy
    Chances guys who claim a game sucks will cease posting in a forum devoted to that game: 3%

    Comment

    • briguy4747
      Rookie
      • Mar 2007
      • 224

      #3
      Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

      Hey, Undefeated, I think I'll give your sliders a try. I kinda like to know the stamina of my pitchers, though, as the game goes along. Have you actually played 120 games yourself, or are some of them simmed ?? And what is your record in games played yourself ?? Thanks a lot !!

      Comment

      • briguy4747
        Rookie
        • Mar 2007
        • 224

        #4
        Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

        I didn't read your scores close enough the first time. I think that your scores are too high for the last 10 games. Too many blowouts, and not even one low-scoring game !! I am not a fan of constant high scores, but thanks anyways !! Will try others' sliders.

        Comment

        • Jordanfan23
          Sports Game Junkie!!!
          • Jul 2002
          • 1468

          #5
          Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

          I just can't see playing a sports game with "house rules."
          I mean, to each his own, but it seems like you are denying yourself the fun of the game using house rules!

          Comment

          • Village Idiot
            Probably Insane
            • Sep 2004
            • 2733

            #6
            Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

            Originally posted by briguy4747
            I didn't read your scores close enough the first time. I think that your scores are too high for the last 10 games. Too many blowouts, and not even one low-scoring game !! I am not a fan of constant high scores ...
            That's not altogether correct. While you're right that there haven't been any low scoring games, I'd say this is more a coincidence than anything. That is, the CPU has had games where they've scored 0 (twice in 10 games, keep in mind), 1, 4, etc.; I've also been shutout twice, and yesterday I played a game where I only scored 3. It just so happens that both teams haven't had a low score in the same game (yet).

            In terms of overall runs scored, granted I'm second in the league currently with 83 (now through 13 games), but keep in mind that the team I'm using ranks #5 in offense - and I played the Royals three times. Against the Orioles, conversely, I scored a pedestrian 10 runs in three games. (Not to mention, given the human contact slider is already at zero, there's a surefire way to cut human runs: drop the human power slider.)

            I should also point out that part of the problem with higher-scoring games in general is the ERA issue. Because walks don't count against a pitcher's ERA, even when a starter does allow 4 or 5 runs, this often only results in 1 or 2 earned runs. Allowing an 'extra' run here and there helps to avoid having a starting pitching staff where all five guys have sub-3.00 ERA's.

            Case in point, look at these numbers:

            Bonderman: 3 G, 17 IP, 17 K, 8 BB, 4.24 ERA, 2-1.
            Robertson: 3 G, 16 IP, 12 K, 10 BB, 4.50 ERA, 0-3.
            Verlander: 3 G, 19 IP, 20 K, 4 BB, 1.89 ERA, 2-0.
            Maroth: 2 G, 7 IP, 2 K, 4 BB, 14.73 ERA, 0-1.
            Ledezma: 2 G, 8 IP, 7 K, 4 BB, 2.08 ERA, 1-0.

            Rodney: 8 G, 8 IP, 2 K, 5 BB, 2.08 ERA
            Zumaya: 6 G, 7 IP, 8 K, 3 BB, 3.86 ERA
            Jones: 4 G, 5 IP, 5 K, 1 BB, 3.60 ERA
            Mesa: 5 G, 5 IP, 5 K, 4 BB, 4.76 ERA

            I mean, those are great, aren't they?

            -----------------------

            By the way, if you do decide to use these, I did make two changes. First, CPU power is now down to 55: while I haven't actually experienced a game where they hit 'too many' HRs, they've been a touch too consistent in hitting two or three per game (which also addresses your above complaint). Second, I moved AI Take Ball Ahead down to 30. (It never should have been at 45 to begin with; another case of a 'lost' slider that I forgot about.) The idea behind this is that they should feel comfortable taking a hack when the count is 2-0 and 3-1; it also makes good sense with respect to all the 2-0 balls the catcher will invariably tell you to throw.
            Last edited by Village Idiot; 04-03-2007, 02:06 PM.
            I am become death
            Do not underestimate my apathy
            Chances guys who claim a game sucks will cease posting in a forum devoted to that game: 3%

            Comment

            • Village Idiot
              Probably Insane
              • Sep 2004
              • 2733

              #7
              Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

              Originally posted by Jordanfan23
              I just can't see playing a sports game with "house rules."
              I mean, to each his own, but it seems like you are denying yourself the fun of the game using house rules!
              It's funny you put it that way, because I've been thinking I should have been a little more clear about that.

              Specifically, the house rules for hitting are installed to encourage walks and keep strikeouts down. That is, they have more to do with impatience than anything else. I mean, of course, swing at whatever you want, lol. It's not the idea to limit what you can do at the plate, but rather to promote realistic pitch counts, walks, and strikeouts for those of us who have problems in this area. For example, in any given game, it would not be uncommon for me to strike out 12 times, never walk, and have the starter sitting at about 60 pitches by the 8th inning. These are there to curb those tendencies.

              The house rules for pitching, likewise, stem from the fact that using more 'traditional' means - throwing what I want, when I want - means almost never walking anybody (honestly, why would you ever throw a ball on a 3-1 count if you didn't have to?) because the pitchers are too accurate using the Payoff system. In turn, this set of rules is installed to promote user-controlled pitchers throwing more balls overall and walking a realistic number of batters.

              As far as I'm concerned, the rules detract nothing from the enjoyment of the experience. But, as you said, to each his own.
              Last edited by Village Idiot; 04-03-2007, 02:11 PM.
              I am become death
              Do not underestimate my apathy
              Chances guys who claim a game sucks will cease posting in a forum devoted to that game: 3%

              Comment

              • Jordanfan23
                Sports Game Junkie!!!
                • Jul 2002
                • 1468

                #8
                Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                Originally posted by Undefeated
                It's funny you put it that way, because I've been thinking I should have been a little more clear about that.

                Specifically, the house rules for hitting are installed to encourage walks and keep strikeouts down. That is, they have more to do with impatience than anything else. I mean, of course, swing at whatever you want, lol. It's not the idea to limit what you can do at the plate, but rather to promote realistic pitch counts, walks, and strikeouts for those of us who have problems in this area. For example, in any given game, it would not be uncommon for me to strike out 12 times, never walk, and have the starter sitting at about 60 pitches by the 8th inning. These are there to curb those tendencies.

                The house rules for pitching, similarly, stem from the fact that using more 'traditional' means means almost never walking anybody (honestly, why would you ever throw a ball on a 3-1 count if you didn't have to?) because the pitchers are too accurate using the Payoff system. In turn, this set of rules is installed to promote user-controlled pitchers throwing more balls overall and walking a realistic number of batters.

                Good explanation, and if that makes the game better for you, then I am glad you found it bro!

                Comment

                • Village Idiot
                  Probably Insane
                  • Sep 2004
                  • 2733

                  #9
                  Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                  Cheers.
                  I am become death
                  Do not underestimate my apathy
                  Chances guys who claim a game sucks will cease posting in a forum devoted to that game: 3%

                  Comment

                  • TheProfessional
                    Pro
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 503

                    #10
                    Topline Dropdowns

                    Originally posted by Undefeated

                    Topline Dropdowns: OFF

                    When you shut this off, you lose some statistical information, but it also makes the pitcher/batter interfaces silent (removing the popping sound of the dropdown going up before a pitch). Most importantly, though, it hides the pitchers' stamina percentage. To me, that's a bit of information that, true to the 'sim' attitude, we shouldn't be able to know: pitch count is what is empirical, and that can be accessed in the Game Summary screen if you really 'must' know.
                    I actually like that idea. I think once i find a good fatigue rate, i will definitely get rid of that.

                    I never really thought of that stamina number that way, but its very true. If you're going to have a pitching change it should be based on what you think your pitcher's effectiveness is, not an arbitrary stamina number.

                    Comment

                    • Ckhoss29
                      MVP
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 980

                      #11
                      Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                      Anyone try these out yet, and are they currently used by the OP??

                      Comment

                      • darrenp1518
                        Banned
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 454

                        #12
                        Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                        Undefeated; I am going to assume that u dont get any foul balls with this setting???

                        Comment

                        • GP Mercy
                          Pro
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 839

                          #13
                          Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                          I have a question about the house rules. Do you place the cursor exactly where the catcher calls it or do you adjust according to pitch? On the swing rule, do you swing only at 2-0, 0-2, 3-2, and that's it?

                          BTW, I'm doing test games in exhibition until I get a feel for the rules.
                          Last edited by GP Mercy; 04-15-2007, 06:58 PM.

                          Comment

                          • darrenp1518
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 454

                            #14
                            Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                            i have to give u credit, i've played a few games and these are really nice sliders. maybe the best ones i've played with so far. The only problem i saw was that by not aiming in any direction with the left stick you might see 3 foul balls in every game!! So i kept everything the same like u said, except before every pitch i make myself aim to a certain side, by doing this you get a huge amount of foul balls; its basically the batters way of fouling off a pitch. but i'll keep playing and tell u how i feel about it in a few. GREAT JOB on these sliders

                            Comment

                            • Sportsfan1889
                              Rookie
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 201

                              #15
                              Re: Finally!! Sliders for Classic/Payoff (360)

                              wait....so only swing at fastballs?

                              I am confused...

                              Comment

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