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  • Feared
    Train Nsane or remainsame
    • Dec 2004
    • 6621

    #1

    Interesting Article

    Cheating? or tipping the advantage in your favor?

    Baseball rules clearly state that you cannot use any foreign substance on the baseball to gain an advantage — no pine tar, Vaseline, sandpaper, shaving cream, whatever. The rules also say that hitters cannot doctor their bats to give them an advantage.

    Now that we have the disclaimers out of the way, let's get to the reality: As long as I've been around the game — and as long as there has been baseball — people have bent the rules to gain an advantage. In the 1920s, it was the spitball. Nowadays, it's scuffing. Hitters used to rub some kind of bone on their bats to make the wood seem harder. Now they rub their bats on bathroom sinks to get the same effect.

    I pitched in Denver for two years, and at a mile above sea level, I used pine tar every time I pitched at home. My thinking was that I was more than 5,000 feet in the air and was entitled to at least do that much. I never thought one thing about it.

    Was it cheating? My numbers say no, given that my career ERA at Coors Field is 7.64 in 59 games. It's very dry in Denver, and that makes the baseball slippery. I needed the tar to hold onto the ball. I didn't want the ball to slip and hit a hitter. At least, that was my thinking. I never considered it cheating; I was breaking even.

    Last week in Anaheim, the Nationals asked that the glove of Angels reliever Brendan Donnelly be checked before he threw a pitch, and he subsequently was ejected for having pine tar in it. Sounds like an inside job to me, and perhaps Frank Robinson was tipped off. You can draw your own conclusions.

    I have played with guys who scuffed or used pine tar and then we've been on different teams the next year. I have been told in so many words that if a former teammate gets checked, then that player will retaliate. To me, that means, "Hey man, you didn't mind me scuffing or using pine tar when we were teammates, so don't rat me out now." And it's left alone on almost every occasion.

    I've been around pitching coaches who teach how to scuff or use pine tar. There's actually an art to scuffing, and there are two fatal errors guys make. The first: They scuff too often. To get away with scuffing, you have to know when to do it. Coaches and older players who have been around a long time know when they see a scuffed ball.

    So you have to pick your spots. You use it when it's a big part of the game and hope to take advantage of the small window of opportunity before the other team is tipped off. The umpire usually doesn't check the pitcher until the opposing manager asks him to.

    The other mistake is making the scuff too big. Don't dig a hole in the side of the ball; just lightly brush the sandpaper across the side. If you want the ball to break left, leave the scuff mark on the right side.

    Now that I've told you how to scuff, the question becomes: How much can players get away with in their own clubhouses? It's funny; pine tar is no big deal to players. Everybody uses pine tar. Catchers put in on their shinguards. Infielders put it in the pockets of their gloves so the ball will stick in there. It's almost a basic part of the game. Sandpaper and Vaseline, however, are looked at as cheating. They give pitchers too much of an advantage.

    For hitters, boning bats in the bathroom is not considered cheating. Corking, however, is. Guys bone their bats in broad daylight. When a guy corks, he does it in private. If you cork and word gets out, it's bad news. You're a marked man.

    Though there might be a difference between scuffing and using pine tar, technically speaking, they're both against the letter of the rulebook. So here's the thing: If you get caught, don't overreact. Have a good time with it until you get caught.

    So the decision to cheat is up to you. Kind of like life, huh?
    Minnesota Vikings
    The Show
  • Blzer
    Resident film pundit
    • Mar 2004
    • 42520

    #2
    Re: Interesting Article

    I'd consider the Yankees' payroll cheating before this...
    Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

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    • Feared
      Train Nsane or remainsame
      • Dec 2004
      • 6621

      #3
      Re: Interesting Article

      Can any hardcore baseball fans explain to me what are the advantages of let's say putting vaseline, or pine tar on the ball?? and also what rubbing the bat against a bathroom sink does?
      Minnesota Vikings
      The Show

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      • Vince
        Bow for Bau
        • Aug 2002
        • 26017

        #4
        Re: Interesting Article

        You wrote this? Todd Jones?
        @ me or dap me

        http://twitter.com/52isthemike

        Comment

        • Feared
          Train Nsane or remainsame
          • Dec 2004
          • 6621

          #5
          Re: Interesting Article

          Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
          You wrote this? Todd Jones?
          Nope lol, I found this article while checking up on today's scores, I myself don't know what are the effects of doing some of these techniques.
          Minnesota Vikings
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          • Vince
            Bow for Bau
            • Aug 2002
            • 26017

            #6
            Re: Interesting Article

            I may be wrong, but if a pitcher uses vaseline, wouldn't that make ,say, a slider have unbelievable break to it?
            @ me or dap me

            http://twitter.com/52isthemike

            Comment

            • bravosfan
              All Star
              • Jul 2002
              • 5184

              #7
              Re: Interesting Article

              Pitchers use pine tar to get a better grip on the ball.

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              • SPTO
                binging
                • Feb 2003
                • 68046

                #8
                Re: Interesting Article

                Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
                I may be wrong, but if a pitcher uses vaseline, wouldn't that make ,say, a slider have unbelievable break to it?
                I believe that's the principle to it. I know Mike Scott was thought to be scuffing and using vaseline in 1986.

                Knuckleballs should be considered cheating as well if we're banning pitchers from having amazing break to their pitches.
                Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

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                • SlimKibbles
                  Supporter
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 7276

                  #9
                  Re: Interesting Article

                  Originally posted by SportsmanTO
                  ...Knuckleballs should be considered cheating as well if we're banning pitchers from having amazing break to their pitches.
                  That's just a certain grip on the ball. TO, you just making a point or are you seriously in favor of banning knucklers? Charlie Hough and Tim Wakefield never used/use any substances on their pitches, at least not to my knowledge. It's all about the grip.
                  MLB: Cincinnati Reds
                  NFL: Cincinnati Bengals
                  NCAA Hoops: Xavier Musketeers
                  NCAA Football: Miami Hurricanes
                  NHL: Calgary Flames

                  "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

                  "The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

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                  • SPTO
                    binging
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 68046

                    #10
                    Re: Interesting Article

                    I know that, I probably wasn't clear enough. I'm saying it's ridiculous to complain about foreign substances or scuffing the ball when hitters have such a huge advantage over pitchers in the last few years. I'm sure that there are still some hitters that cork their bats and use tons of pine tar on them as well.

                    I'm not saying throw away all restrictions. All i'm saying is, things are fine the way it is right now.
                    Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                    "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                    Comment

                    • SlimKibbles
                      Supporter
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 7276

                      #11
                      Re: Interesting Article

                      Originally posted by SportsmanTO
                      I know that, I probably wasn't clear enough. I'm saying it's ridiculous to complain about foreign substances or scuffing the ball when hitters have such a huge advantage over pitchers in the last few years. I'm sure that there are still some hitters that cork their bats and use tons of pine tar on them as well.

                      I'm not saying throw away all restrictions. All i'm saying is, things are fine the way it is right now.
                      Gotcha. I'm on board with all of that. Yeah, there are still guys out there that are cheating and not getting caught. Donnelly got caught though. From what I read, there are a lot of pitchers besides him that use pine tar for a better grip on the ball. Doesn't make it right. I imagine the way these things go, once someone gets caught, usage dies down awhile and then picks up when the "coast is clear" so to speak.
                      MLB: Cincinnati Reds
                      NFL: Cincinnati Bengals
                      NCAA Hoops: Xavier Musketeers
                      NCAA Football: Miami Hurricanes
                      NHL: Calgary Flames

                      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

                      "The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

                      Comment

                      • jmw1137
                        *t's g*nn* b* L*g*nd*ry
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 1119

                        #12
                        Re: Interesting Article

                        I applaud Todd, a current major league pitcher, to admit he's 'cheated.' Good article.

                        Comment

                        • bergie56
                          T*rg*t F**ld
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 3984

                          #13
                          Re: Interesting Article

                          I dont think this is any surprise since baseball really is a sport in which its players have always tried to bend the rules. I've always wondered how much "doctoring" a ball does to effect its break. What about pitchers in the NL or during Interleague play who bat and use pinetar? Do they (those that dont use batting gloves) have to wipe it off of their hands before they return to the mound?

                          Comment

                          • Misfit
                            All Star
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 5766

                            #14
                            Re: Interesting Article

                            Any pitcher who pitches at Coors field should be allowed to do anything he wants to the ball.

                            Comment

                            • bergie56
                              T*rg*t F**ld
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 3984

                              #15
                              Re: Interesting Article

                              Originally posted by Misfit
                              Any pitcher who pitches at Coors field should be allowed to do anything he wants to the ball.
                              LMAO so true. I read an article in TSN about Coors and I think they should be allowed to increase the humidity in the thing they store their baseballs in.

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