Hoffy Milestone

[BatsareBugs]

With tonights win and save, Trevor Hoffman overtook John Franco for second-place on the saves career list. It was his 425 of his career.

He is 53 saves away from All-Team Saves Leader Lee Smith.

[mjb2124]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Wow. I had no idea he was THAT close to Lee Smith.

Obviously Hoffman's been a great closer throughout his career, but he's been silently creaping up the All-Time saves leader list.

I always liked Hoffman as a player. Once he lost his 95+ fastball he had to reinvent himself as a closer. Something that's not easy to do, but he did it. Plus nothing beats "Hell's Bells" blaring on the stadium sound system as he enters a ballgame.

[SportsTop]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Wow. I had no idea he was THAT close to Lee Smith.

Obviously Hoffman's been a great closer throughout his career, but he's been silently creaping up the All-Time saves leader list.

I always liked Hoffman as a player. Once he lost his 95+ fastball he had to reinvent himself as a closer. Something that's not easy to do, but he did it. Plus nothing beats "Hell's Bells" blaring on the stadium sound system as he enters a ballgame.

Not to mention that he is a class act. He's very involved in the community and has always been a leader in the clubhouse.

You have to wonder if he'll be elected to the HOF when all is said and done. He and Rivera have been the two dominant closers of this generation, but closers seem to get the snub because it is a relatively new "position".

I've said it before and I'll say it again, nothing else in sports (live) compares to Hoffman coming out to Hell's Bells in front of 45,000 people.

[videobastard]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

I didnt know hoffman was that high up in saves.

[SPTO]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

It's amazing that all but 2 saves in his career has been in a San Diego uniform. I don't know if he'll make the HOF. I mean there isn't any real set criteria for a closer and there's a major difference in closing for contending teams as opposed to teams that suck. Hoffman has played on mostly so-so teams except for something like 3 seasons.

I'd like to see Bruce Sutter and/or Smith in the Hall before Rivera and Hoffman ever make it.

Congrats to Hoffman on the achievement tho

[cooldude]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Well done for him.

[deeman11747]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

It's amazing that all but 2 saves in his career has been in a San Diego uniform. I don't know if he'll make the HOF. I mean there isn't any real set criteria for a closer and there's a major difference in closing for contending teams as opposed to teams that suck. Hoffman has played on mostly so-so teams except for something like 3 seasons.

I'd like to see Bruce Sutter and/or Smith in the Hall before Rivera and Hoffman ever make it.

Congrats to Hoffman on the achievement tho

As consistently good as Hoffman has been over the course of his 15+ regular seasons... I just can't see him as a HOF. When the all-time saves leader can't even get into the HOF... then everyone else needs to do something truly spectacular.... and Hoffman hasn't done that. For the few times he was in the postseason (twice)... he was incredible unclutch.

96 NLDS- 0-1 10.80 ERA
98 WS- 0-1 9.00 ERA


Im sorry but if the alltime saves leader can't get in on what he has... than Hoffman won't get in on regular season numbers alone. He hasn't come up big in the playoffs and thats what would push him over the top.


Of course I'm not trying to take away from his regular season accomplishments... beause I think its crazy how he's creeped his way up the alltime saves list mostly unoticed by everyone else.

[SPTO]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

I agree with you deeman.

I think Rivera is a shoo in simply because he's been one of the most clutch pitchers in postseason history. That fact alone puts him in there in my books. I don't really think Hoffman would get in tho.

As i've said previously in this thread Sutter/Smith should be in the Hall by now. Hell even Goose Gossage should be in as well.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

I didnt know hoffman was that high up in saves.

It'd be even higher if he didn't have to miss the 2003 season because of injury. 500 saves wouldn't be out of the question if he didn't miss that year. Big if that is.

[SportsTop]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

I agree with you deeman.

I think Rivera is a shoo in simply because he's been one of the most clutch pitchers in postseason history. That fact alone puts him in there in my books. I don't really think Hoffman would get in tho.

As i've said previously in this thread Sutter/Smith should be in the Hall by now. Hell even Goose Gossage should be in as well.

Last I checked, a player's HOF status didn't hinge on his performance in the post-season. Reggie Jackson would've still been elected even without his October heroics and Mark Lemke will still only be remembered as a post-season hero who is not in the HOF.

HOF criteria, at least as far as I interpret it, mostly falls on how dominant a player was at his given position during the era in which he played.

I have no doubts that players such as Smith, Sutter, and Rivera should be elected. But if that is the case, then there is no way to excuse Hoffman being overlooked.

[dce1228]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

unclutch.

96 NLDS- 0-1 10.80 ERA
98 WS- 0-1 9.00 ERA

He was dominant in the 98' NLDS and NLCS against Houston and Atlanta, however.

His complete post-season record is 2-2, 4.09 ERA with 13 Ks in 11 innings. Neither good nor bad, but it's not like he's played for a perennial play-off team to better his stats.

If he can continue to re-invent himself and notch up the saves he might still have a shot at the HALL... especially since he's pitched dominantly through a hitter's era. And he's absolutely one of the class guys of that era.

[deeman11747]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Last I checked, a player's HOF status didn't hinge on his performance in the post-season. Reggie Jackson would've still been elected even without his October heroics and Mark Lemke will still only be remembered as a post-season hero who is not in the HOF.

HOF criteria, at least as far as I interpret it, mostly falls on how dominant a player was at his given position during the era in which he played.

I have no doubts that players such as Smith, Sutter, and Rivera should be elected. But if that is the case, then there is no way to excuse Hoffman being overlooked.

Last I checked...no one said the post season WASNT a big factor in the HOF selection. Reggie had a great career... but how can you be 100% sure he wouldntve been selected without his playoff heroics.

What you said makes no sense. A player plays in the regular season to get to the playoffs where they can win a championship. They don't play in the regular season just to accumulate regular season stats. So a guy that has performed well in the postseason should absolutely no question get more credit than a guy who doesn't perform well in the postseason.

Basically what you just said is that a guy who excells in the postseason should not have a better chance to get in the Hall than a guy who performs not as well in the postseason which is absolutely wrong.

[SportsTop]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Last I checked...no one said the post season WASNT a big factor in the HOF selection. Reggie had a great career... but how can you be 100% sure he wouldntve been selected without his playoff heroics.

What you said makes no sense. A player plays in the regular season to get to the playoffs where they can win a championship. They don't play in the regular season just to accumulate regular season stats. So a guy that has performed well in the postseason should absolutely no question get more credit than a guy who doesn't perform well in the postseason.

Basically what you just said is that a guy who excells in the postseason should not have a better chance to get in the Hall than a guy who performs not as well in the postseason which is absolutely wrong.

Reggie would've easily been elected without his post-season heroics. How do I know, you ask? Name me another eligible player with at least 500 HRs that isn't in the HOF.

In fact, name me a player who excelled in the post-season that would not have been elected to the HOF without that on his resume.

***Edit: Who do you think deserves HOF selection? Greg Maddux or John Smoltz? According to your line of thinking, Smoltz should be head and shoulders above Maddux because of his dominance in the post-season as compared to Maddux's mediocrity.

[SPTO]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

***Edit: Who do you think deserves HOF selection? Greg Maddux or John Smoltz? According to your line of thinking, Smoltz should be head and shoulders above Maddux because of his dominance in the post-season as compared to Maddux's mediocrity.

Rivera will still get in based on his regular season numbers but a lot of what makes players legends is what they do in the postseason. You are right that sometimes it doesn't matter but it still plays some role. Yogi Berra was a great catcher but a good chunk of his legacy has to do with his heroics in the world series.

Maddux will prolly get in the Hall and Smoltz has a very good chance at it as he's had a career that's similar to Dennis Eckersley.

[SportsTop]

Re: Hoffy Milestone

Rivera will still get in based on his regular season numbers but a lot of what makes players legends is what they do in the postseason. You are right that sometimes it doesn't matter but it still plays some role. Yogi Berra was a great catcher but a good chunk of his legacy has to do with his heroics in the world series.

Maddux will prolly get in the Hall and Smoltz has a very good chance at it as he's had a career that's similar to Dennis Eckersley.

Just to emphasize what I said earlier:

HOF criteria, at least as far as I interpret it, mostly falls on how dominant a player was at his given position during the era in which he played.

Notice the mostly in that sentence. I don't deny that post-season performance influences the writer's ballots, but I do not believe it is not the deciding factor.

The Smoltz/Maddux argument wasn't to judge who would or wouldn't get it, rather I used it to illustrate a point to counter deeman's earlier post.