A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

[Will]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Jesus H. Christ.

You're looking at value by looking at the entire team. That can not be the case. Tejada didn't push The A's over the top. Tejada, Chavez, Zito, Hudson, and Mulder did. How can you determine Tejada's value then?

If you want to get stuck on value, you must look at value of thue individual. ARod is more valuable to any team than Tejada would be. If Tejada was on the Rangers, they'd be in last. If ARod was on the A's, they'd be in the Series.

That is the onyl valid point. That's it. ARod is more valuable to any team than Tejada would be to that same team. That's why ARod is the most valuable player.

You guys have given this award to the Oakland A's. Tejada didn't win it, because his numbers pale in comparison to ARod's. The A's won it. And that's a complete shame to ARod.

[grtwhtsk]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Will - I read your post and my opinion varies greatly. Actually you are not the only person who has said the Rangers would still be in last with Tejada and that the A's would win with Arod. Where is your crystal ball? Did you ever hear anything about team chemistry? Did you watch the A's down the stretch and see Tejada come through for them a countless number of times? Would Arod have gotten those big hits? Maybe, but NOT definitely. If Tejada doesn't get a lot of those hits, the A's lose a lot of those games. Then maybe the Angels win the division, and then who knows what happens in the playoffs. Maybe if Tejada was on the Rangers, then they could afford a better supporting cast. Maybe they would contend with that better supporting cast and even make the playoffs. Bottom line is that both players are very talented. I have already said that Arod had better stats and should be the Player of the Year in the AL. That is not what the MVP is. If it was, he would have the award.

[Will]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Where was Tejada in the ALDS?

ARod is more valuable to any team than Tejada would be to that same team. The numbers easily show that. ARod led the league in HRs, RBIs, and total bases, and is a better defensive player than Tejada.

You say ARod never had any big hits, or never came through in clutch situations. Show me where ARod didn't come through when needed.

The MVP is given to the best player in each league. That's how it is. You could make a reach with all this value talk if thue numbers were the same, but they're not even close. Not even in the same ballpark.

By giving this award to Tejada, you have made it into a team award. The MVP is not a team award.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Will, your points are all valid, but you have to remember that the voting is done before the post-season... ALDS or World Series performance has nothing to do with the award.

Also, know that nobody is arguing with you about A-Rod's season... the numbers don't lie, and statistically, he was by far the best player in the league.

The thing is, though, that the award (I know this has already been beaten to death in this thread) should go to the most valuable player on a team. The guy with which that team could not win without. Baseball is a team sport, and the ultimate goal is to win games, eventually making it to the playoffs and the World Series. You have to take a team's success and a player's success and weigh them when making a decision about what player was the most valuable to his team's final outcome. All they theories about "well, if A-Rod was on the A's and Tejada was on the Rangers blah blah blah" are moot, because they are pure speculation and have absolutely no bearing on the discussion. Tejada was on the A's, and with his clutch hitting down the stretch, he helped propel them into 1st place and then into the playoffs.... all in one of the most competetive divisions in baseball. A-Rod played great, and I'm sure he had a hand in many of the Ranger's victories over the year, but in the end, Tejada's performance made more of an impact on his team's fortunes than A-Rod's did on his. The A's won 20 in a row, in large part thanks to him, and made it to the playoffs. Individual stats are great, fun to look at, etc... but baseball is still a team game, and all players on a team have a common goal, a common reason for playing, which is to make it to the post-season.

It's not like there is a precedent for players on last-place teams getting the MVP award. Andre Dawson and.... well, just Andre Dawson. Not one single person selects who wins MVP... there is a vote, by people more qualified than us to judge a player's worth.... and they voted for Tejada, by quite a few votes.

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

The only reason Tejada had more "big" hits (he didn't, the ones he did have were all near the end of the season so people remember them) is because his pitching staff kept the game close. If you replace Tejada's numbers with A-Rod's, there isn't even a need for clutch hits because they are winning games by wide margins instead of having to come from behind.

38 Walks in 700 PAs?!?! Eric Chavez had pretty much the same slugging % and OBP as Tejada. Some people don't realize that runs in the 1st inning count just as much as runs in the 9th inning. And wins in the beginning of the season count just as much as wins at the end of the season.

They give team MVPs for players most valuable to the team. League MVPs should be for the league, not for the 4 teams that made the playoffs. And if you want to get literal about "valuable" then you need to give the MVP to Barry Zito or Torii Hunter or Garrett Anderson.

Oh, and 2 "people more qualified than us" voted for Sammy Sosa over Barry Bonds in 2001. People more qualified than us from Chicago, of course.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

You can't say that "if you replace Tejada's numbers with A-Rod's".... that's all speculation. There's too many variables... maybe A-Rod doesn't do well against a pitcher that Tejada lights up... maybe A-Rod strikes out in the 3rd instead of hitting a homerun, which has an impact on what happens in the later innings... etc.

Different situations, different players, and you can't just plug the numbers of one onto the other's team. This ain't Quantum Leap, you know.

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

So let's throw away numbers completely in the MVP decision and bring back GWRBI from its current position as an unofficial and useless statistic, since that one individual statistic seems to be the only important factor for several people here.

Or maybe we could use batting average in the clutch. If that's the case, we might need to go back and give some MVP awards to Garth Iorg. No?

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

And one more thing...it takes a lot more effort to put up good numbers on a losing team than on a winning team, and more effort when you have a guaranteed contract than when you're trying to increase your market value.

[BaseballGuru]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And one more thing...it takes a lot more effort to put up good numbers on a losing team than on a winning team, and more effort when you have a guaranteed contract than when you're trying to increase your market value.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, let's give him a big E for effort then, because I was under the impression that he was doing his job. Does it take more effort to play in games that don't matter than it does to play under pressure situations all the time? Hmmmmmm... you might want to think about that one. Also, I would think that someone trying to increase their market value would play to the best of their abilities, not the other way around. Maximum effort would result in a better pay day when it comes to contract negotiation time, would it not?

When all is said and done, neither your nor anyone else's whining is going to make the voting parties call for a recount, so I guess you're just going to have to come to grips with the results.

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Right, people with fat contracts tend to slip, and A-Rod didn't.

Anyway, I could really care less who won; I'm saying that the Baseball Writers of America are stupid for turning a *leaguewide* *individual* award into one that is limited to non-pitchers on playoff teams. I'm anti-stupidity, not pro-ARod. And yes, I've come to grips that the Baseball Writers of America are stupid. It's just funny to watch how people regurgitate what they read without figuring out if it makes sense.

[jake]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

It should come as no surprise this outcome. The greater miscarriage of justice came when Albert Belle lost to Mo Vaughn. Mo Vaughn had a good season but Belle had 50 homeruns and over fifty doubles. Needless to say his slugging pct was out of this world and his numbers outdistanced Vaughns-- and he was on a team that won 70% of their games. So he had every component Arod had and his team was even winning but didnt get it because the media didnt like him. They took his behavior personally because he was surly. What criteria exists for defining MVP that justifies not giving it to Ablert Belle? Compared to Albert Belle, AROd has nothing to complain about.

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Terry Pendleton, anyone?

[BaseballGuru]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

Again, you have to look at the end result of the player's season and the impact it had on his team's fate. Without Terry Pendleton, there's no way the Braves come back from their 10 game All Star break deficit to win the division that year. Were there players with much better numbers? I don't know, and I'm not going to spend the next half hour looking them up. I do know, however, that he was a most valuable player that year.

[bigj1601]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP

theres no doubt that arod had the best numbers. if this was the mop then i would give it to him twice over. but i dont think you can give it to a last place guy. and no the award doesnt go to the player with the best numbers. it happens often, in every sport in fact, that they guy with the best numbers doesnt win.

[FatPitcher]

Re: A-Rod is unquestionably the MVP



But if the Braves had Bonds that year, they wouldn't have been in the 10-game hole to begin with. It's like the stupid NCAA football polls where early losses matter less than late losses. You're saying that players who do better late in the season are more valuable than players who do better early in the season...simply not true. Wins are wins, no matter when you get them. If you clinch the division by winning the last game of the season, EVERY win that season is of equal importance.