Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

[BatsareBugs]

I know there are some San Francisco Giants fans out there. Recently there was an article posted on how bright the future is for the Diamondbacks are with their farm system and I already know how the Dodgers farm system is shaping up. I want to know how yours is going (I don't care much for Colorado's, they call them up, they're good there but I never hear from them again once they're out).

I think the Padres have the worst farm system in this division, sure they developed players like Khalil Greene, Jake Peavy, and Oliver Perez, but they've also flopped with Sean Burroughs, Dennis Tankersley, Brian Lawrence (I don't know, I don't think he was supposed to be good to begin with), and Xavier Nady. We have a few good prospects, most of which came from the last draft (Cesar Carillo, Nick Hundley, Chase Headley, Kyle Blanks, Ben Johnson, Josh Barfield, Jared Wells, and George Kottaras) but it's pretty thin if you were to look at the overall talent.

[Blzer]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Well, we just got rid of Brian Cooper last month... I don't really think we're shaping up too well.

Right now, I'm not concerned about the future. I'm concerned about the Bonds era. He needs his ring, and right now, as long as he's healthy, his MVP-like performances along with Winn, Vizquel, Alou, Morris, Schmidt, and Matheny will give us a huge chance this year. I don't know why... but I'm really feeling it come together finally.



(I didn't add Feliz to that list because of his poor performance afte rmy high expectations of him last year. Horrible!)

[rsox]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Well, we just got rid of Brian Cooper last month...

Yeah, but they brought him back (minor league contract, invite to spring training).

Outside of Matt Cain, Merkin Valdez and Todd Linden the Giants farm system is not that strong, hence all of the aging players on their roster. The Giants currentley have 16 players on their 40 man roster over 30, 9 of which are 35 or older. The Giants have spent so much effort in trying to win now it seems like they have almost neglected their farm system.

[remix]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Well I believe we have a nice group of young pitchers as we saw last season in Cain, Lowry, Hennesey, Correia Taschner etc. Here's what I pulled from the Giants board.

1. Matt Cain. Enough said.
2. Dan Ortmier. The first 20-20 man in the Eastern League in over 5 years.
3.Fred Lewis. His truly phenom season was masked by his equally horrendous start. Ultimate destination is RF- doesn't have the feel for CF- but will develop enough power to not be a tweener.
4. Merkin Valdez. I'm encouraged about things I've heard from I-league that his secondary stuff has improved about 2 years worth from 3 months intensive 'school of pitching' approach. We may have a winning formula here.
5. Marcus Sanders. Would rank #2 if I thought he was staying in the MI, and was sure of his health, but I think he'll end up in CF.
6.Travis Ishikawa. Too many SOs, but he had a breakthrough season and has two plus tools.
7. Nate Shierholtz. I don't know what to thik about Nate right now- I still think he has the highest ceiling of the position players on the farm, but I need to see more power or more patience this year.
8. Sharion Martis- I know it's in AZ, but the kid has top of the rotation starter written all over him. Plus heater, plus curve, workable change at age 18, superb control.
9. Kevin Frandsen. Who could not like this guy? I expect Robbie Thompson numbers when he takes over from Ray ray next season. May have tuff transition this year with ML off speed stuff.
10. Mike Mooeney. Hits for average, power, good defense in CF, good speed. Will be this year's Sanders.
11. Jon Sanchez. Of all our raw mid 90s speedballers, one most likely to have durability/control to be a SP.
12. Brian Wilson. This is the closer in training. Second best FB in the system, good curve. Should hit the show by August.
13. Waldis Joaquin. Best FB in the system but raw. Throws strikes but secondary stuff under developed. Should start next year in the Sally, but eventually should move to pen.
14. Craig Whittaker. Stock has fallen this year. Still has pepper, but didn't develop enough last two years. Still on SP track, but the clock ticks.
15. Pablo Sandoval. Should rank higher on performance, tools, but worried about body type. Best 3B in the system right now.
16. Eddy Martinez- Estevez- Serious serious hitter, horrid defender I could live with. Jabba the Hutt workout tapes I can't. Show me health, Jenny Craig, move to 1B, and he moves up.
17 Jeremy Accardo. Ceiling is middle relief, but reaching ceiling fast.
18. Alfredo Simon. I expect that the change to reliever will be permanent this year.
19. Pat Misch. Serious adjustment year for a kid who was moving very fast. Prof Pat should figure out AAA this time around.
20. John Bowker. Just like Lewis, early derailment hides a decent year. May end up a tweener, not enough power.
21.Kevin Corriea. Would rate higher, but Out of options, so out of development time. The dangers of fast tracking a kid onto the 25 man to fill an emergency need.
22. Kelyn Acosta. This kid has truly filthy stuff, but derailed by TJ. Has very similar stuff to Wilson, and should have similar year.
23. Dan Griffin. I'm not sure if he's a trick pitch guy yet. If he hides the curve against more advanced players, he will be legit.
24. Joe Dyche. Kid was worn out, but he can seriously rake.
25. Clay Timpner. No power, but flashed great leadoff/CF skills. AA kills a ton of these guys off- if he survives transition, he'll move up.
26. Eric Threets. For the last time.
27. Ryan Sadowski. could end up a bottom of the rotation starter.
28. Justin Hedrick. Doesn't have the raw stuff that several other guys do, but showed good control and mentality in closer role.
29. Billy Sadler. Mid 90s heater reliever on more traditional path. Some control issues, but improved.
30. Mark Minnicozzi. Impressive debut at SK masked by other high flyers.
31. Justin Knoedler. I have faith in this kid's bat- has predictable learning curves.
32. Nick Pereira. Could be the best sleeper of the draft class.
33. Jon Coutlangus. Yet another wildish mid 90s FB relief prospect and a lefty.
34. Kelvin Pichardo. Yet another WM90FBRP. Young, raw.
35. Brian Horowitz. Old for his levels, low power, but two batting titles in 2 years. Wellcome to SJ Brian! You may hit 400! Like Timpner, needs to make it through AA before his high average will be accepted.
36. Wil Thompson. wellcome to the Sally Wil! You may hit .400!
37. Brian Andersen. Great numbers at S-k as closer. Good slider, but is FB good enough?
38. Jesus Reina. Another mid 90s FB reliever. Wild.
39. Ben Copeland. Showed more power than I expected, but against weak pitching. Lets see how full season goes
40. Ariel Nunez. Old to be in AZ, but had a superb year. Needs to jump to Sally.
Honerable mention Shannon Shoop, Garrett Broshius, David Maroul, Angel Chavez, Chris Begg, Wayne Foltin, Ben Cox, Ben Nieto.
Special Mention. If Todd Linden still qualified, he would have ranked between 3 and 6.

First of all, I would say the #''s 2-20-25 are all bunched so close, that it's almost arbitrary. Putting Frandsen at #2 and leaving Eddy off doesn't mean I think Frandsen is a whole lot better prospect.

In Frandsen's case, I believe that he is the most likely Giants position prospect to become a major league starter for us within the next 2 years by quite a margin. In my mind, that trumped possible higher upside on other players.

As for pitchers, once you get beyond Matt Cain, we don't have anything that even closely resembles a "can't miss" as a starter. Most of our high velocity guys are relieving, and most of our finesse guys had unimpressive years. That's why I went for upside at starter over experience. The recent BA article swayed me a lot on Whitaker, maybe too much so.

I think Ortmeier and Lewis have as much or more upside as any of our position prospects and they both have something that none of the others have. They passed the acid test in Norwich. They both should have huge years in Fresno. If they don't, they will drop off big time next go around.

Finally, Eddy M-E. His hitting tailed off dramatically in the second half of last year. In my mind, even that is suspect. Add in his absoulutely horrific D, I'm not sure you have a prospect at all. I'm in the business of rating Giants prospects, so his potential as an AL hitter doesn't sit well with me. Even in the AL, you have to be a heckuva hitter to be even a DH if you don't have any position to play. Those jobs go to the David Ortiz's of the world. I just don't see an AL team giving up a whole lot for Eddy just because he might someday hit well enough to be a DH. For a comparison, AL teams haven't exactly broken Florida's door down for Josh Willingham. He has a lot stronger track record as a hitter than Eddy M-E. When Eddy can show me a position he can adequately field, and hits with authority for a whole season, he will move way up my list.

[Scottdau]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Actually Or future is pretty good. Especailly when Bonds contract is up. We will have a lot of money to sign other players. I will miss BONDS. He is one of the greatest to ever play the Game. So that will be a hugh lost, but I like the fact that we can sign other players.

[Blzer]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Bonds really isn't that much money, if you think about it. I mean, granted, he's a **** LOAD! But... compare it to Sosa's contract with the Cubs. He was paid $17 mil, and Bonds is paid $18 mil. Bonds is of such great value for what we're paying him... and that value is irreplaceable. That $18 mil will not buy something anywhere near the same calibur performance that Bonds has given us.

[rsox]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Bonds made $22.million last season and only played in 14 games, making $18.million in a season where the Giants are crossing their fingers that he can play in 120 games is hardly a bargain at this stage of his career.

[SportsorDeath]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

I'll bet anyone right now $50 that Bonds plays less than 120 games this year. The money he makes isn't exorbitant for a player of his caliber, but at this stage of his career, it is too much.

More important than that, though, is that merely having him on the team, and him being at this point in his career, is proving to be detrimental to the team as a whole. Everything has been centered around him for years, to the point where they truly have neglected their minor league system. It isn't really anything new, either. Who was the last every day good position player the Giants actually developed? Seriously, does anyone even know? I don't. Pedro Feliz could be the answer to that question, but we'll see how he does now that he finally will get a chance to play every day. They have swung and missed on the majority of their draft picks, and they keep bringing has beens in every year in an attempt to get Barry a World Series title. Granted, I will say their young pitching looks to be in pretty good shape for the first time in god knows how long, but they really, really need to get their crap together when it comes to devloping position players.

[Scottdau]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

Reguardless of what other players make it is still a lot of money. I know what you are saying Blzer. i just think once that deal is done we can sign some good players and maybe a markee player. Also I would be very happy if Bonds played 120. With Steve and Alou filling in that would be just fine. I do think the Giants will be a good team this year, but you never know!

[Scottdau]

Re: Giants fans, how's the shape of your farm system?

I'll bet anyone right now $50 that Bonds plays less than 120 games this year. The money he makes isn't exorbitant for a player of his caliber, but at this stage of his career, it is too much.

More important than that, though, is that merely having him on the team, and him being at this point in his career, is proving to be detrimental to the team as a whole. Everything has been centered around him for years, to the point where they truly have neglected their minor league system. It isn't really anything new, either. Who was the last every day good position player the Giants actually developed? Seriously, does anyone even know? I don't. Pedro Feliz could be the answer to that question, but we'll see how he does now that he finally will get a chance to play every day. They have swung and missed on the majority of their draft picks, and they keep bringing has beens in every year in an attempt to get Barry a World Series title. Granted, I will say their young pitching looks to be in pretty good shape for the first time in god knows how long, but they really, really need to get their crap together when it comes to devloping position players.

Dude you are way off. Just look what the team did when Bonds came back last year. They almost won the West. I hear what you are saying, but the team loves winning and they know with Bonds on the team their chances are better. Winning overlooks everything! Why do you think the Giants have been in it every year since they got Bonds. Bonds is the most fear batter in the league.