Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

[Stu]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

ERA is one of the most overrated aspects of a pitcher.

How so? Isn't the goal of the pitcher to not allow runs?

[dacubys]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

a great pitcher sure but he is also overrated . i know of several pitchers in his era that were much better but don't get his hipe. what made him good in his day was that he was pumping heat before anyone else did and had great mechanics which led to a long career. if he was pitching today he would be good, but just lost in the mix.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

ERA is one of the most overrated aspects of a pitcher.

I agree, but he also walked a ton of guys. Walks are entirely dependent on the pitcher.

[sportsdude]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

How so? Isn't the goal of the pitcher to not allow runs?

that is the goal of the team. The goal of the pitcher is to not allow the batter an opportunity to reach base, either via a walk or a hit. ERA is often out of a player's control, eg. bad defense, incorrect score keeping, whereas whip is a much much better indicator of a good pitcher. There's a much better explanation of this in Moneyball, which I post but unfortunately I have to go to work soon.

[Stu]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

that is the goal of the team. The goal of the pitcher is to not allow the batter an opportunity to reach base, either via a walk or a hit. ERA is often out of a player's control, eg. bad defense, incorrect score keeping, whereas whip is a much much better indicator of a good pitcher. There's a much better explanation of this in Moneyball, which I post but unfortunately I have to go to work soon.

Ahh. I thought you were going to start the DIPS argument.

I understand what you're saying and agree to an extent. However, using that logic WHIP is out of a pitcher's control as well since the same factors (Defense, Score keeping) could affect it.

[RedsFan75]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

Check the Wikipedia page... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Ryan

Here are some snippets....
He was most noted for his blazing fastball and his longevity, routinely throwing pitches exceeding 100 mph, even into his forties.

Ryan was an eight time MLB All-Star and his 5,714 career strikeouts rank first on the all-time list. Ryan is also the all-time leader in no-hitters with seven, which is at least three more than any other pitcher. He is also tied with Bob Feller for the most one-hitters with twelve.

Ryan ranks first all-time in strikeouts (5714), fewest hits allowed per nine innings (6.56), fifth in innings pitched (5386), second in games started (773), seventh in shutouts (61) and tied for 13th in wins (324). He also ranks high on the list for four "negative" records; he ranks first all-time in walks allowed with 2795, in wild pitches with 277, and he also ranks third all-time in losses, with 292. Also he is ninth all-time in hit batsmen.

Nolan Ryan is also the only player in Major League history to strike out a side in nine pitches in BOTH leagues. He did it for the Mets on April 19, 1968, and for the Angels on July 9, 1972.

During his years as a Met (65-72)the NL Cy Young winners were Sandy Koufax, Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson Ferguson Jenkins, Mike McCormick and Steve Carlton

Angles 73-79 Cy Young's went to Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter and Jim Palmer, with Palmer taking most of them.

As an Astro 79-87 Cy Youngs went to Bruce Sutter, Steve Carlton, Dwight Godden, Orel Herschiser, as well as a few others.

And the Rangers 88-93 Cy Youngs to the likes of Roger Clemons, Frank Viola and Brett Saberhagen and Eckersley.

I saw him pitch several times, and he was on some very bad teams but he always kept them in it.

[dacubys]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

the no hitter is the most overrated thing in sports

[RedsFan75]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

How so?

[glucklich]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

How so? Isn't the goal of the pitcher to not allow runs?

For the most part youre correct but sometimes, for pitchers who get good run support, it makes sense for them to have the batter put the ball in play at the risk of giving up a couple of runs. And then you have guys like Clemens last year and Nolan Ryan, for much of his career, who have absolutely no margin for error.

[dacubys]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

most no hitters are a result of great fielding plays and a benefit of the scorekeeper on from time to time or even a slumping or bad hitting team. and just look at some of the pitchers that have done it. but i will say that a few of them have been impressive pitching performances.

[glucklich]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

How so?

In some cases guys use too many pitches walking guys in the process of accomplishing the same thing as a guy with a one hitter, which is a shutout. Is it better to throw 130 pitches, walk 5 and have a no hitter OR is it more impressive to throw 95 pitches and have a one hit shutout?

[dacubys]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

In some cases guys use too many pitches walking guys in the process of accomplishing the same thing as a guy with a one hitter, which is a shutout. Is it better to throw 130 pitches, walk 5 and have a no hitter OR is it more impressive to throw 95 pitches and have a one hit shutout?

i agree totally the most impressive pitching display i have ever watched is the night wood struck out 20 and it wasn't even close to a no hitter but i gauruantee he had better stuff that night than 95% of the no hitters thrown

[mjb2124]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

i agree totally the most impressive pitching display i have ever watched is the night wood struck out 20 and it wasn't even close to a no hitter

Didn't he give up 1 hit that game?

Kerry Wood......speaking of overrated. Topic for another day though.

[SPTO]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

most no hitters are a result of great fielding plays and a benefit of the scorekeeper on from time to time or even a slumping or bad hitting team. and just look at some of the pitchers that have done it. but i will say that a few of them have been impressive pitching performances.

???

In some cases yes but not really. I've seen some very dominant no hitters. (Dennis Martinez for instance) It's a very hard feat so I can't say it's overrated.

As for Ryan, he's not overrated. Remember, he had a hand in making Randy Johnson what he is today. At some point in Johnson's time in Seattle he went to Ryan for help in harnessing his fastball.

Also let's look at Ryan's postseason stats: 2-2, 3.07 ERA, and an amazing 63 K with only 14 walks!

So it's not like he's Greg Maddux who struggles mightily in the postseason.

[glucklich]

Re: Is Nolan Ryan overrated?

Didn't he give up 1 hit that game?

Kerry Wood......speaking of overrated. Topic for another day though.

Yes he did and it was a ball Orie (was he their 3B at the time?) should/could have had. It was a borederline call. It would have been a tough error but Ive seen worse.