Can someone please explain why....

[Porschebenz2001]

Alfonso Soriano hits leadoff in the Nats lineup? He's 2nd in the NL in HR's and has around 50 RBI's. Wouldn't he be helping the team a lot more from the 3 or 4 spot?

[jmw1137]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Easy...look at his situational stats: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/...22a8ZgNJmFCLcF


G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Batting 1st 48 200 40 63 11 0 17 35 20 42 12 6 .315 .380 .625 1.005
Batting 3rd 10 43 6 8 0 0 3 5 2 13 1 1 .186 .222 .395 .618
Batting 4th 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Batting 5th 8 29 5 9 2 0 3 7 2 5 2 0 .310 .375 .690 1.065
Batting 8th 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000

[BGarrett7]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

If you're best power hitter can also double as a leadoff man, why not stick him there to maximize his plate appearances. Afterall, it has been proven that position in the lineup means next to nothing at all in terms of production.

[Tomahawk]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

If you're best power hitter can also double as a leadoff man, why not stick him there to maximize his plate appearances. Afterall, it has been proven that position in the lineup means next to nothing at all in terms of production.

I agree with you about maximizing plate appearance by hitting leadoff, but "proven that position in the lineup means next to nothing at all in terms of production" is a little hard to phathom especially in the NL. If you are just talking about your own ability to hit I might can see that a little, but when most people think of production they think of driving in runs.

If you are like Soriano or any leadoff hitter in the NL, you are usually coming up after the #8 hitter and the pitcher so you are not going to have as many chances to drive in runs. If position means nothing at all in terms of productions why don't we see the leadoff hitter leading the league in RBI's or the #7 hitter leading the league in runs scored?

[snowmizer]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Those who've analyzed it, using math far more involved than I understand, say, on a teamwide basis (i.e., runs scored per game) the actual batting order of your positional players makes almost zero difference. You could randomly pick the 8 (NL) or 9 (AL) names out of a hat each night and do equally well.

[snepp]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Got a link for this analysis? Sounds interesting.

[BGarrett7]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Got a link for this analysis? Sounds interesting.

The Baseball Prospectus article Was Billy Martin Crazy? in Baseball Between The Numbers sums it up quite well.

[CMH]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

I agree with you about maximizing plate appearance by hitting leadoff, but "proven that position in the lineup means next to nothing at all in terms of production" is a little hard to phathom especially in the NL. If you are just talking about your own ability to hit I might can see that a little, but when most people think of production they think of driving in runs.

If you are like Soriano or any leadoff hitter in the NL, you are usually coming up after the #8 hitter and the pitcher so you are not going to have as many chances to drive in runs. If position means nothing at all in terms of productions why don't we see the leadoff hitter leading the league in RBI's or the #7 hitter leading the league in runs scored?

It would matter if RBI were really that important in evaluating a player's talent. But, I realize you are talking about typical production.

Soriano has proven to be a player that can produce runs on his own (with a homerun) and create runs on his own (stealing bases). I understand the argument that by batting leadoff he wouldn't have as many RBI, but understand that there are other players in that lineup that can produce RBI (RBI is merely a product of what's around you, right? You can't drive in runs unless players get on base. Batting up with runner's on occurs by chance rather than that player in question's skill level).

If Soriano can create runs with his bat and feet than why wouldn't you want to increase his plate appearances? His chances of driving in a runwith a hit with 2 outs is the same as 0 or 1 outs so it doesn't matter (as evidence by his 50 RBI) that the eighth and ninth hitter are batting before him. Assuming he batted third, what's to say that whoever you put at leadoff and second in the lineup will get on-base in the first inning anyway?

[snepp]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

The Baseball Prospectus article Was Billy Martin Crazy? in Baseball Between The Numbers sums it up quite well.

Thanks. Read some reviews on the book and may have to pick up a copy.

[snowmizer]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Got a link for this analysis? Sounds interesting.

Well, here's one link I knew I could track down fairly quickly... http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/R...lineup_art.htm

By the time you're 10% through it, though, I'm not sure if the term 'interesting' would apply.

[Vince]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

I remember when the Reds used to have Adam Dunn at the 1 spot.

[snepp]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

Well, here's one link I knew I could track down fairly quickly... http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/R...lineup_art.htm

By the time you're 10% through it, though, I'm not sure if the term 'interesting' would apply.

Sad as it may seem, I did find it interesting. I'll go back and reread it a little closer when it's not so late.

[dalnet22]

Re: Can someone please explain why....

I remember when the Reds used to have Adam Dunn at the 1 spot.

I remember when the Reds would start hot and tail off around June.