Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

[Shaver]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

I don't know why... but I just see them falling apart... as much as I would love to see the Tigers dethrone the Sox I just don't see it happening... hell I think the Twins may have a better shot... Inge, Monroe, Shelton are not doing so hot right now and eventually if they don't pick it up the team will suffer when their pitching goes in a slump which (WILL) happen at some point even if only for a week or two... but by that point the Sox may have already pulled away. Sad but true... I just don't see anyone catching the White Sox.

Are the Sox not susceptible to the same type of slump?

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Are the Sox not susceptible to the same type of slump?

Of course they are... just the Sox have protection in the form of a killer line-up.... my hatered for the Sox is strong and their fans can certainly atest to that... but I just don't see them faltering... either their pitching or hitting will probably always be on, I just don't see that happening for the Tigers... their offense is not strong enough IMO to make it through the 2nd half... I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling that I'm not.


I will say this though, if the team as a whole can pick up their level of play to that of Granderson, I could see them holding off the Sox and taking the division... but to me that's a big IF.

[Shaver]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Let me ask you this (to give me some outsider perspective)...

Where are the glaring holes in the Tiger's offense?

[Misfit]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

The hole in the Tigers offense to me is that a lot of the guys in there are hackers, free-swingers, if you will. There are not a lot of OBP guys in there so as a team they are more prone to hitting slumps. Surpisingly, Granderson is the best OBP guy in that lineup, the next best is Guillen. The rest are not worth mentioning.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Inge obviously.... hitting .231 at 3rd base is not getting it done...

Monroe and Thames when combined only come out to a .266 avg although they do equal 26 hr and 63 rbi's...
Actually after looking over Thames stats why the hell isn't he starting over Monroe on a daily basis?

Infante is struggling...

If Pudge goes down Vance Wilson isn't a strong hitter at catcher... granted not many backup catchers are very good and that prediciton is based on Pudge being hurt which is a thing of chance anyways...

As for the rest of the team its very solid... the bench could use some depth... but I think I like the Sox more because they are veterans and they have done it before... the Tigers outside of Pudge and Maggs (somewhat) have not...

So yeah... not a ton of holes... just the fact that the Sox are experienced is what gives the edge to them in my eyes. Both are good teams, I just figure one will get screwed over in regards to the wildcard likely heading up East.

[Shaver]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Thanks. It is nice to get outsider's perspective. Especially from a rival city.

A couple comments on yours...

Inge obviously.... hitting .231 at 3rd base is not getting it done...

I certainly agree that Brandon is a liability at the plate right now in terms of on-base percetage. He is playing rock solid D and has shocking power numbers for a kid his size. While you usually need power from your corner infielders, the Tigers do get more power from SS than most teams.

Monroe and Thames when combined only come out to a .266 avg although they do equal 26 hr and 63 rbi's...
Actually after looking over Thames stats why the hell isn't he starting over Monroe on a daily basis?

Thames has been playing just about every day for the last 6 weeks. He's definately Leyland's guy. He likes him a lot. Monroe does have a slightly better glove.

Infante is struggling...

Infante rarely plays and I would expect his time to continue to drop. He only gets rips now because Leyland loves resting guys. Something you don't see as much from Ozzie. Could be a factor???

If Pudge goes down Vance Wilson isn't a strong hitter at catcher... granted not many backup catchers are very good and that prediciton is based on Pudge being hurt which is a thing of chance anyways...

No doubt you lose a ton at the dish if Pudge goes down. The one thing I like about Vance is that he's a vet who really knows how to catch the kids on this roster.

As for the rest of the team its very solid... the bench could use some depth... but I think I like the Sox more because they are veterans and they have done it before... the Tigers outside of Pudge and Maggs (somewhat) have not...

So yeah... not a ton of holes... just the fact that the Sox are experienced is what gives the edge to them in my eyes. Both are good teams, I just figure one will get screwed over in regards to the wildcard likely heading up East.

All I know is that I'd rather see Cleveland swoops in and take it than the East. The Central is playing too well this year to not get the WC.

Thanks again for the opinions.

[Stu]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

All I know is that I'd rather see Cleveland swoops in and take it than the East. The Central is playing too well this year to not get the WC.

I think the Central takes the WC this year either way just because there are three good teams in the East to beat up on each other, rather than just two. (Minnesota might have a decent record but they've been a whipping boy for the Central)

[Dice]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Much respect for the Tigers this year. I appaud them for their dramatic turn around this year. Just like with the White Sox rebuilding of a couple of years ago, Detriot starts with the manager. Now you see why I say a good manager can make a difference for a ball club. Leyland is a proven winner. He bascially took the same 71 win ball club from last year and possibily make them into a 100+ win team. The only additions to their team was Kenny Rogers and Doug Jones.

If the Tigers keep this up it will be highway robbery if Leyland doesn't win AL Manager of the Year.

I still feel the White Sox will overtake them in the second half BUT I'm worried. With rumors of the Tiger getting Smoltz and possibily Abreu that's going to force the White Sox to make a deal to keep pace. I feel confident Kenny Williams will do this if the Tigers make a move. However, if both teams stay pat then I'm putting my money on the White Sox.

Two holes I see in the Tigers team:
1. As previously stated, they are free swingers. Leading AL in stirkeouts and at the bottom half in walks doesn't help their offense when they need to manufacture runs.

2. The back end of their bullpen. Outside of Rodney, the bullpen guys are either average or suspectable of a blow up. Jones has been horrible despite his 6.60 ERA. I'm waiting for the Tigers to put Rodney in that closers role full time. I think that'll help them out big time.

My predicition is the White Sox winning the division and th Tigers winning the Wild Card. And for the first time since the formation of the 3 division format(1994) the ALCS will have two teams from the Central Division.

[Shaver]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Hmmmmm... on your 2nd point....

Zumaya (from the right) and Jamie Walker (from the left) have been stellar in the 5th through 7th. Zoom has 46 k's in 31 innings and Walker has only given up 3 earned runs (all solo HRs) in 26 appearances. I would call that, at the least, above average.

[Misfit]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Abreu would definitly be a great fit for the Tigers. That would allow them to DH Thames and move Monroe to the bench. They'd get a power guy with a good OBP. He strikes out too much, but thats the way today's game seems to go.

[mgoblue]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Hmmmmm... on your 2nd point....

Zumaya (from the right) and Jamie Walker (from the left) have been stellar in the 5th through 7th. Zoom has 46 k's in 31 innings and Walker has only given up 3 earned runs (all solo HRs) in 26 appearances. I would call that, at the least, above average.

and even though Todd Jones scares me every time he pitches, he has made quite a few saves (the stats escape me). I expect a change in closer at some point, but the bullpen isn't the Tigers weakness IMO. I'm not sure if the starting pitching can keep this up, and the bats are still slowly learning to manufacture runs (gets better each day).

What really impresses me is the fact that this team has so much confidence and doesn't give up. They're always in the game, and have stolen quite a few in the late innings. Leyland has this team mentally stable, and that's the intangible that's really affected things.

I think the White Sox will probably pass the Tigers, but I always wonder if Ozzie Guillen's the MLB version of Larry Brown. Everyone says it's Ozzie being Ozzie, just like Larry being Larry, and as a Piston fan I know that Larry's antics wore thin after a while.

[Dice]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Hmmmmm... on your 2nd point....

Zumaya (from the right) and Jamie Walker (from the left) have been stellar in the 5th through 7th. Zoom has 46 k's in 31 innings and Walker has only given up 3 earned runs (all solo HRs) in 26 appearances. I would call that, at the least, above average.

When I mentioned the 'back end of the bullpen' I meant the guys who pitch 7-9th innings. I know the Tigers have quality middle relief BUT when I mentioned 'back end' it was more for Todd Jones. And it's crazy he has that high ERA with 20 saves.

[Havok410]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

One thing that people haven't mentioned is the Tigers amazing defense. Magglio Ordonez is the only below average defensive player that they have but he's also been their best offensive player. If they keep playing defense at this great level then I think they'll win the wildcard. I don't see them winning the division because the white sox are the more complete team but if they trade for Abreu then they'll win the division IMO.

[Shaver]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

When I mentioned the 'back end of the bullpen' I meant the guys who pitch 7-9th innings. I know the Tigers have quality middle relief BUT when I mentioned 'back end' it was more for Todd Jones. And it's crazy he has that high ERA with 20 saves.

So did I.... Zoom pitches the 7th, Rodney the 8th and Jones the 9th. Sometimes they swap in Walker or Ledezma for situational lefties in the 7th or 8th. The Tigers true middle relief has rarely been tested because starting pitching is usually getting to the 7th.

I think...and this isn't a slight on you... but a lot of people fall into the category of simply looking at the Tigers in the boxscores and on ESPN and have not seen them play this year. Hell, the Sunday Night announcer on Sunday flat out said that neither one of them has watched a single Tigers game this year. Best record in baseball, pretty much, wire to wire so far and ESPN's national team hasn't even watched a game????

Yes, I know. Collapses happen.

Yes, I know. The Sox are a good team.

Yes, I know. Something has to give.

But, collapses don't always happen.

The Tigers are a good team too.

And something doesn't always have to give.

I truly defy anyone to watch a few Tigers game and (a) enjoy this team and (b) tell me that they aren't good enough to hold this division.

Oh... FYI... last night's 4-0 win was their Major League Leading 10th shutout.

[Vince]

Re: Now that we're almost at the halfway point...

Sorry, but I really hope you guys slip. It may be the only way the Jays make the playoffs considering the way the Sox are playing right now.