Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

[Victor99]

Obviously we aren't going anywhere this year. Our pitching has been inconsistent and our defense has been downright embarassing. Once again we continue to lack the basic fundementals to have success in the league(ie. bunting, base stealing, hit and run, etc.) Is it time for Eric Wedge to go? IMO, right now we are nothing more than a power hitting club that can win a few games here and there on scoring runs alone. But that doesn't work in the playoffs of course. What are your thoughts Indians fans? Other than KC, we're the bottom feeders of this now very strong division.

[dieselboy]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

I'm not an Indians fan...

But the Indians should look to make some moves this off-season. First of all, Peralta needs to go. He can't play SS, and Marte is waiting in the wings at 3B. Ship him out.

Also, if there is a decent market for Blake, Broussard, Westbrook, Byrd, or Mota, then trade them. The Indians are out of it, and have a lot of parts they could move, so they should sell, and sell often.

Get some more players to add to the solid farm system, and go from there. They have a lot of nice parts, but can't put it together.

[SPTO]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Weren't they actually pretty decent in the field last year? I've heard that a lot of the problems in the field is due to the players not having enough concentration and not having their heads in the game. That, to me is a sign that the coaching staff is not doing their job.

I wouldn't trade all the young comodities but I would definitely look into trading some of the extra parts that the team has and see if you can get some pitching prospects out of it.

I'd also think hard about firing Wedge and his staff for the above reason stated.

[dieselboy]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

I'm not an Indians fan...

But the Indians should look to make some moves this off-season. First of all, Peralta needs to go. He can't play SS, and Marte is waiting in the wings at 3B. Ship him out.

Also, if there is a decent market for Blake, Broussard, Westbrook, Byrd, or Mota, then trade them. The Indians are out of it, and have a lot of parts they could move, so they should sell, and sell often.

Get some more players to add to the solid farm system, and go from there. They have a lot of nice parts, but can't put it together.

And just as I say that...

Mariners trade Sin Soo Choo OF to the Indians for Ben Broussard.

[Victor99]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

I'm not ready to give up on Peralta just yet. He's not the only one of our young players having problems defensively either. Martinez will most likely be playing 1B next season(he can't throw out base stealers to save his life), they shipped Broussard to Seattle today for prospects BTW. Wickman is gone as well. More deals will be coming I'm sure.

[Victor99]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Weren't they actually pretty decent in the field last year? I've heard that a lot of the problems in the field is due to the players not having enough concentration and not having their heads in the game. That, to me is a sign that the coaching staff is not doing their job.

I wouldn't trade all the young comodities but I would definitely look into trading some of the extra parts that the team has and see if you can get some pitching prospects out of it.

I'd also think hard about firing Wedge and his staff for the above reason stated.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Wedge. He waits for the big inning and the 3 run homer too much. Like I said, lack of basic fundamentals.

[bjf1377]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

I suppose it's just time to call up a new batch of guys and let them see if they can do something together. I'd like to see Marte, Gutierrez, and Garko up full time. And I'm about ready to agree that Wedge isnt a very good manager

[Victor99]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Larry Dolan's tight purse strings are starting to grind my gears as well. Why did he buy a MLB franchise without having the money to run the operations? Our farm system is pretty deep, but a lot of those kids are a few years away. The future seems cloudy at best for this club IMO.

[Stoud]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Speaking as an M's fan who has a lot of respect for the Indians, I'd have to say that I'm not that big of a fan for the Broussard trade. No offense or anything, I mean...Broussard has got some serious skills, but...just like you guys....WE NEED PITCHING, NOT HITTING. The Indians also need some good infield defense. You've got the Catcher and the Second baseman...that's a start....now work on third, short, and first. Hell, just put whoever you want at first, and worry about third and short. The Indians have a nice group of young starters who will be awesome someday soon...however, as we speak, they are probably better suited to the lower spots in the lineup, rather than the higher spots that they are forced to be delegated to. I think if you guys could get a big name pitcher (highly unlikely) and put him at the top, it might solve a lot of your problems. However, it's so unlikely that I'd just as soon expect the Indians to just wait for their pitching talent to come around.

[Victor99]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Speaking as an M's fan who has a lot of respect for the Indians, I'd have to say that I'm not that big of a fan for the Broussard trade. No offense or anything, I mean...Broussard has got some serious skills, but...just like you guys....WE NEED PITCHING, NOT HITTING. The Indians also need some good infield defense. You've got the Catcher and the Second baseman...that's a start....now work on third, short, and first. Hell, just put whoever you want at first, and worry about third and short. The Indians have a nice group of young starters who will be awesome someday soon...however, as we speak, they are probably better suited to the lower spots in the lineup, rather than the higher spots that they are forced to be delegated to. I think if you guys could get a big name pitcher (highly unlikely) and put him at the top, it might solve a lot of your problems. However, it's so unlikely that I'd just as soon expect the Indians to just wait for their pitching talent to come around.

That's the point. We have the talent in the farm system, but it's just raw materials. We've got the petroleum, but we need to turn it into gasoline.

[The C]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

That's the point. We have the talent in the farm system, but it's just raw materials. We've got the petroleum, but we need to turn it into gasoline.

As long as we don't look into alternative fuel sources I'm cool.

ER wait...What am I saying.

Anyways, I hope Dolan opens his pockets and signs pitchers and not just gives us another "Look, we locked up Hafner and Martinez thats enough for now."

What would Dick Jacobs have done?

[Dregur]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

Speaking as an M's fan who has a lot of respect for the Indians, I'd have to say that I'm not that big of a fan for the Broussard trade. No offense or anything, I mean...Broussard has got some serious skills, but...just like you guys....WE NEED PITCHING, NOT HITTING. The Indians also need some good infield defense. You've got the Catcher and the Second baseman...that's a start....now work on third, short, and first. Hell, just put whoever you want at first, and worry about third and short. The Indians have a nice group of young starters who will be awesome someday soon...however, as we speak, they are probably better suited to the lower spots in the lineup, rather than the higher spots that they are forced to be delegated to. I think if you guys could get a big name pitcher (highly unlikely) and put him at the top, it might solve a lot of your problems. However, it's so unlikely that I'd just as soon expect the Indians to just wait for their pitching talent to come around.

I completely disagree. We need offense, not pitching. Other than Joel Pinero, who else would replace in the starting 5? Gil Meche? Jamie Moyer? Expensive Jarrod Washburn? The Phenom Felix Hernandez? Our staff ERA is 4th in the AL in ERA, and our bullpen is pretty damn good.

Offense is where it's at.

-The Grinman

[Stoud]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

I completely disagree. We need offense, not pitching. Other than Joel Pinero, who else would replace in the starting 5? Gil Meche? Jamie Moyer? Expensive Jarrod Washburn? The Phenom Felix Hernandez? Our staff ERA is 4th in the AL in ERA, and our bullpen is pretty damn good.

Offense is where it's at.

-The Grinman

We might need a big bat for the outfield (prefferably), but just because our pitching is some of the best in the AL doesn't mean it's good enough. Dude...that just speaks to how amazingly SAD the pitching is for many AL teams, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE WEST. Think about the implications of that. I can't believe anyone would argue for hitting instead of pitching, ESPECIALLY in the AL WEST!! HELLO!! Every other team's crappy pitching is NOT just an excuse to try JUST BARELY as much as you have to to COMPARE to them. We should be trying to OUTCLASS THEM IN EVERYTHING PITCHING RELATED. IMHO we outclass them in the bullpen area, but the rotation is EXTREMELY suspect. Think about it. If we had pitchers even just a little bit better than who we have in our rotation right now, we wouldn't need a better offense. Are offense is relatively stacked as it is. Nearly everyone on the team can hit with the exception maybe of a few guys who are just having trouble. Better pitching is the key to winning in the west, not a better offense. Haven't you been watching the Rangers? THEY HAVE TRIED THAT SYSTEM FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS!! It should be obvious by now that, not only is it not working, but it simply DOES NOT work. The Yankees have had a stacked offense for years, and yet they haven't had much success in the post season for the last few. Without pitching you can't do anything, and no, our pitching still isn't good enough yet. I'd say it's almost there, but if we were to just quit reformatting our pitching now just because it's doing a little well, I think you'd be upset at the results. Even if we did get to the post, as usual, we'd get knocked out in the first or second round, so what would the point be? I'm sorry, but I just care more about WINNING IT ALL than frickin...winning a few games, making it to the post, and choking. If we had a guy like Santana instead of Piniero, then we'd probably be a pretty scary team...however, most people and most teams still look at us as a knockover...why? BECAUSE WE STILL ARE! No question the M's have improved, but come on...if you really think we don't need pitching right now, then you just...I don't know WHAT'S wrong there...but something is just WRONG with that statement. Offense helps to a certain extent, but it doesn't win championships -- pitching does -- and that's what I would hope the M's ultimate goal is.

It's not about beating the West, it's about beating the REST.

I think most Indians fans would agree with me in this sentiment -- they'd rather have pitching they can trust than shakey pitchers and a good offense. It's interesting how much in common the M's and the Indians have right now, not to say that they have a whole lot in common, but the things they do have in common are causing similar results. That's why I can understand how they feel. This is nuts. We're both tired of supporting a team that we love, but that clearly doesn't know what the hell it's doing, nor do those in charge probably even care.

[Havok410]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

The Indians will be fine in the future if they can acquire a couple of solid pitchers. Their offense is great (+35 run differential despite bad pitching) and should be great for years to come because of age+long contracts. Also, there's no way that their defense will be this bad for much longer either (especially considering how good it was in 2005)....Belliard, and Peralta should be able to improve defensively in the future and Marte should give the team a defensive boost in the future as well. But they do play in a very tough division and if their owner doesn't spend more money...the Indians could be looking at 80 win seasons and no postseason instead of the 90+ win seasons that the team can be capable of.

[Lintyfresh85]

Re: Indians fans, what is to be done with this mess?...

we need to get more prospects out of these trades IMO.

I don't have time right now to write out my thoughts on the Tribe but I still believe we have the talent to be a contender next year, just as I thought that this year...