Useless stats

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  • bullpen
    Rookie
    • Oct 2003
    • 348

    #1

    Useless stats

    What stats do you consider useless in baseball ?

    -Stats against a particular team (players move so much that it is irrelevant)
    -Stats in interleague play (they don't even play the same team every year...what does that show ?)

    Remember the movie Mr.Baseball ? (with Tom Selleck)....when he told his manager that last year he led the team in 8th inning doubles in the month of may...
  • dkgojackets
    Banned
    • Mar 2005
    • 13816

    #2
    Re: Useless stats

    I find it useless when they try to make some sort of connection between stats that directly lead to each other. For example, in basketball they say that team A wins 95% of the time when their opponent has x many more fouls. Well, when the opponent is already losing, they are going to foul constantly in order to stay in the game. In baseball, it may be like such and such pitcher has never lost when he has a 5 run lead. Well, if he is on the verge of losing a big lead, he's going to get pulled before he is eligible for the loss.

    Comment

    • Coug00
      LOB
      • Jul 2002
      • 3476

      #3
      Re: Useless stats

      Originally posted by bullpen
      What stats do you consider useless in baseball?
      Maybe not useless, but probably one of the most misleading stats is Wins (by a pitcher). Pure opportunity based statistic in which they can't control.
      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

      Comment

      • IlliniM1ke
        Heroes Never Die
        • Feb 2003
        • 8082

        #4
        Re: Useless stats

        Originally posted by Coug00
        Maybe not useless, but probably one of the most misleading stats is Wins (by a pitcher). Pure opportunity based statistic in which they can't control.
        Wins and Losses can be very misleading, look no further than Matt Cain for the Giants this year, he is pitching great for them but they can never score any runs when he starts.

        Hes 2-6 with a 3.31 ERA, but hes gone late into games many times only allowing 0-2 runs and the Giants just can't muster any offense.
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        • Sandman42
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2004
          • 15186

          #5
          Re: Useless stats

          Wins, Losses, Matchups vs. a certain team because the players are always changing, Batter vs. Pitcher matchup (usually way to small of a sample size).

          I'd like to say batting average also, but I don't consider it as useless, just overrated. OBP and OPS are way better metrics than batting average and most fans should know what they are.
          Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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          • SportsTop
            The Few. The Proud.
            • Jul 2003
            • 6716

            #6
            Re: Useless stats

            I'd never say wins and losses is a useless stat. While it can be misleading, it can be used as a barometer over a period of time as to how much of an opportunity a pitcher gave his team to win a game.

            Sure there are flukey situations like Cain this season, but we very rarely see it over the course of an entire career.
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            • BatsareBugs
              LVP
              • Feb 2003
              • 12553

              #7
              Re: Useless stats

              Useless stats:

              What X player's stats are at X-X count.

              Obviously with an 0-2 count the player's is going to have 38 K's in 43 AB's in that count. Likewise a player is going to probably have 20 BB's in 52 AB's and hit .335+ with a 3-0 count.

              I just don't like stats that state the obvious i.e. X team has a record of 43-5 when leading through seven innings.

              Comment

              • dkgojackets
                Banned
                • Mar 2005
                • 13816

                #8
                Re: Useless stats

                Saves are a very overrated stat.

                I also think a very misleading stat is BA with RISP/bases loaded. This will always be higher than your normal batting average because fly outs to the outfield with 1/no outs dont count against you, where as they would otherwise.

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                • BatsareBugs
                  LVP
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 12553

                  #9
                  Re: Useless stats

                  Originally posted by dkgojackets
                  Saves are a very overrated stat.

                  I also think a very misleading stat is BA with RISP/bases loaded. This will always be higher than your normal batting average because fly outs to the outfield with 1/no outs dont count against you, where as they would otherwise.
                  Saves are overrated when the guys is between career saves 0-200 and have an ERA well over 4 and can't manage to be a closer for long.

                  It's so easy to belittle such an "overrated" stat and I agree some of the situations are ridiculous (closer comes in with two outs in the bottom of the eighth in a save situation, gets the final out, offense scores a few runs and the save margin increases making it less likely to blow a save), but so few reach astronomical numbers for their career with it.

                  Comment

                  • dkgojackets
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 13816

                    #10
                    Re: Useless stats

                    Its overrated in the sense that any pitcher could be put in the "closer" role and rack up some saves. All you have to do is get three outs when you have been spotted a lead. Then again, after watching Florida games that is much easier said than done.

                    Comment

                    • DGetz
                      Pro
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 636

                      #11
                      Re: Useless stats

                      Originally posted by Rag3vsW0rld
                      Useless stats:

                      What X player's stats are at X-X count.

                      Obviously with an 0-2 count the player's is going to have 38 K's in 43 AB's in that count. Likewise a player is going to probably have 20 BB's in 52 AB's and hit .335+ with a 3-0 count.

                      I just don't like stats that state the obvious i.e. X team has a record of 43-5 when leading through seven innings.
                      I disagree strongly - showing the difference in different types of counts demonstrates the importance of discipline if you're a hitter and control if you;re a pitcher.

                      Overrated stat: RBIs - generally in baseball percentages or ratios are a much more effective tool than raw numbers. Putting aside that clutch hitting is largly a myth who would you ratehr have - a guy who averages 100 RBI a year but hits .270, slugs.400 with runners on or a guy who averages 85 RBIs a year but hits .300, slugs .500 with RISP? Baseball is about what you do in the opportuniites you have, not how many chances you get (which is why people have always looked at batting average, not raw numbers of hits)
                      "Darth Vader doesn't cry, Peter."
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                      • dalnet22
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 770

                        #12
                        Re: Useless stats

                        Originally posted by Rag3vsW0rld
                        Useless stats:

                        What X player's stats are at X-X count.

                        Obviously with an 0-2 count the player's is going to have 38 K's in 43 AB's in that count. Likewise a player is going to probably have 20 BB's in 52 AB's and hit .335+ with a 3-0 count.

                        I just don't like stats that state the obvious i.e. X team has a record of 43-5 when leading through seven innings.
                        These are extremely useful for the teams themselves. It may not matter much for a fan to know someone crushes the ball on an 1-2 count, but the pitcher cares.

                        Comment

                        • wangjaz
                          Rookie
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 433

                          #13
                          Re: Useless stats

                          a lot of stats in baseball and team sports are relative to teammates and other things.
                          pitcher's eras & wins can change depending on what stadium they play in, if they have a good defense behind them, run support etc


                          but one general stat i would like to see more used than wins is the "quality start" stat.

                          Comment

                          • dalnet22
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 770

                            #14
                            Re: Useless stats

                            Originally posted by wangjaz
                            a lot of stats in baseball and team sports are relative to teammates and other things.
                            pitcher's eras & wins can change depending on what stadium they play in, if they have a good defense behind them, run support etc


                            but one general stat i would like to see more used than wins is the "quality start" stat.
                            I think QS is the only truly reliable pitching stat for starters.

                            Comment

                            • X*Cell
                              Collab: xcellnoah@gmail
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 8107

                              #15
                              Re: Useless stats

                              Originally posted by Squint
                              I'd never say wins and losses is a useless stat. While it can be misleading, it can be used as a barometer over a period of time as to how much of an opportunity a pitcher gave his team to win a game.

                              Sure there are flukey situations like Cain this season, but we very rarely see it over the course of an entire career.
                              Right... some stats need bigger sample sizes than others...

                              One stat that I absolutely love is Batter vs. Pitcher stats, because it usually always proves true.
                              SAN ANTONIO SPURS

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