small ball....

[TheTruth916]

Which league is more small ball type of game planning AL or NL? Or has it kind of changed like more balanced now?

[oakfan162]

Re: small ball....

By far the NL. Ever since the DH and until something changes (i.e. DH is gone or both leagues get it) it will remain that way.

[chippered]

Re: small ball....

By far the NL. Ever since the DH and until something changes (i.e. DH is gone or both leagues get it) it will remain that way.

Agreed.

One of the reasons ERA's are so high in the AL? Pitchers dont get hit for, so they are left in longer and accumalate more runs against. In the NL, a guy may have only given up one run, but his team hasnt scored. That pitcher comes up in the seventh with a guy on second? He's out of the game, the manager attempting to get a pinch hit to score that guy on second.

[TheTruth916]

Re: small ball....

Thanks guys.

[SPTO]

Re: small ball....

I used to love watching Felipe Alou managing the Expos. He'd use small ball to the extreme as a way to make up for some of the lack of talent on his team.

Also Small Ball can win some games. I was watching one of the games the Jays had in San Fran where they did a suicide squeeze with a man on 3rd which brought in the winning run across the plate. I just hate when sabremetric geeks say small ball has no role in baseball.

[chippered]

Re: small ball....

I used to love watching Felipe Alou managing the Expos. He'd use small ball to the extreme as a way to make up for some of the lack of talent on his team.

Also Small Ball can win some games. I was watching one of the games the Jays had in San Fran where they did a suicide squeeze with a man on 3rd which brought in the winning run across the plate. I just hate when sabremetric geeks say small ball has no role in baseball.

Small ball is exciting, but I prefer its used along with "big ball". Every player and situation is different.

[SPTO]

Re: small ball....

Small ball is exciting, but I prefer its used along with "big ball". Every player and situation is different.

True you need to have a balance or the odds will go against you but I think some stats heavy folks tend to dismiss it way too much.

[chippered]

Re: small ball....

True you need to have a balance or the odds will go against you but I think some stats heavy folks tend to dismiss it way too much.

Agreed. A guy that can put himself into scoring position by stealing a bag consistantly is invaluable.

[Havok410]

Re: small ball....

I used to love watching Felipe Alou managing the Expos. He'd use small ball to the extreme as a way to make up for some of the lack of talent on his team.

Also Small Ball can win some games. I was watching one of the games the Jays had in San Fran where they did a suicide squeeze with a man on 3rd which brought in the winning run across the plate. I just hate when sabremetric geeks say small ball has no role in baseball.

Of course it can win some games but it also loses alot of games. This has been proven with facts from these so called sabermetric "geeks". The whole point of baseball is to not give away outs. It's fine if pitchers of horrible players bunt evey once in awhile but if decent players keep bunting all year then the outs will start piling up.

Also, stealing isn't bad if it's not done excessively and if it's done by players who don't get caught very often. The sabermetric folks don't dismiss "small ball" as much as you think.

[Brandon13]

Re: small ball....

Agreed. A guy that can put himself into scoring position by stealing a bag consistantly is invaluable.

Here's part of a post by BGarrett on another board (Hope you don't mind me reposting it here) that does a pretty good job refuting that idea:

Take Rickey Henderson in his 130 SB season in '82. Again quoting from BP: "
... Henderson added an extra 22.2 runs to the A's offense with his 130 steals. But the 42 times he was caught cost the team 20.6 runs, meaning that for all that running, the A's gained a total of 1.6 runs of the season." Granted, that is the extreme scenario. However, Rickey's 75.6% success rate that season is not far off from what most of the current stolen base leaders put up. Take Rickey's career success rate (80.6%), and compare it ot the likes of Jose Reyes (81.3%), Ichiro (80.5%), Kenny Lofton (79.7%), Juan Pierre (73.9%), Rafael Furcal (77.3%), Jimmy Rollins (80.4%), Carlos Beltran (87.3%) and Luis Castillo (71.1%). And you see that only one of them (Beltran) is attempting to steal on a consistent enough basis to justify trying to take the extra base.

[Stu]

Re: small ball....

I think the point most people miss is exactly related to what Brandon13 posted above. Sabermatricians aren't saying that teams should NEVER bunt or NEVER steal. Just that they're tools that should be used in specific situations, rather than as a general strategy.

There are times when players should (and need) to steal a base, but running every time they get to first isn't going to significantly help their team over the course of a season.

[oakfan162]

Re: small ball....

I used to love watching Felipe Alou managing the Expos. He'd use small ball to the extreme as a way to make up for some of the lack of talent on his team.

Also Small Ball can win some games. I was watching one of the games the Jays had in San Fran where they did a suicide squeeze with a man on 3rd which brought in the winning run across the plate. I just hate when sabremetric geeks say small ball has no role in baseball.

Of course there was the other side of Felipe Alou, you know, the guy who used like 18 pitchers to get three outs. Just ask Giants fans about that one. lol.

[chippered]

Re: small ball....

Here's part of a post by BGarrett on another board (Hope you don't mind me reposting it here) that does a pretty good job refuting that idea:

By "stealing a bag consistently to put yourself into scoring position" I meant that the guy needs to do so without getting caught. Yeah, makes no sense to attempt a steal if your likely to get caught and give the other team a run, in turn killing a potential scoring opp.

[CMH]

Re: small ball....

Chris Young said it best and he has a 2.26 ERA.

Young also isn’t bothered by the fact that opponents have been successful on all 15 steal attempts while he has been on the mound this season. “Statistically, you are off getting the batter,” Young told the San Diego Union-Tribune. “Occasionally, you are going to get burned, but you are better off focusing on making the good pitch than the runner. Greg Maddux and I talked about it this spring. Less than 20 percent of steals lead to runs that wouldn’t have otherwise scored.”

It's true that coaches will always tell their pitchers to worry about the hitter and not the runner. Obviously, you don't want guys running all over you all day, but if you get the hitter out that runner would never score.