Jorge Posada a HOFer?

[ZM Punk]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

I don't see the guy getting in. He's been very underated his whole career but I don't think he is HOF material.

Very solid player though.

[Havok410]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

Just like the article says, he needs at least 3 more solid years and then he should be a lock.

Carlton Fisk: .269 .341 .457
Posada: .274 .377 .477

Fisk was better defensively and had amazing longetivity, but Posada is the better offensive player and if he can play another 5-7 years then he should be a lock for the Hall.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

But, you aren't talking about a 1B or OF. You're talking about a catcher.

Exactly... we're talking catcher. And to be honest, his defense has never been that good. The catchers that are in there with less offensive-minded numbers, they were stallworts at the plate. Posada wouldn't block the plate if his life depended on it for a very long time.

Now that being said, his defense has gotten somewhat better. But his above average offense doesn't get him in because he hasn't even been average behind the plate most of his career; so it pretty much offsets to good player... Not great.

Right now he is incredible on offense this year, and at least average defensively. If he keeps this up this year and a couple more, I say put him in. At the moment though, he isn't deserving of the hall.

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What makes offensive catchers so coveted is the fact that on top of their amazing defense, they still put up numbers. Posada never had amazing defense, so those good offensive numbers should not be held in the same light as Fisk's. Fisk took an absolute beating at the dish from oncoming runners, whereas Posada wouldn't even try to block them.

[caseyd]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

If Jorge Posada is in the HOF while Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson, and Jim Rice are still out, I will officially quit caring about it. Since when is Posada considered one of the top 30 or 40 players in baseball, much less the top 5 or 10? I can understand the arguments about being a catcher (which is the exact reason Gary Carter got in ahead of those other guys), but come on. Never mind me. I'm just a bitter fan of the 1980s.

[CMH]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

Exactly... we're talking catcher. And to be honest, his defense has never been that good. The catchers that are in there with less offensive-minded numbers, they were stallworts at the plate. Posada wouldn't block the plate if his life depended on it for a very long time.

Now that being said, his defense has gotten somewhat better. But his above average offense doesn't get him in because he hasn't even been average behind the plate most of his career; so it pretty much offsets to good player... Not great.

Right now he is incredible on offense this year, and at least average defensively. If he keeps this up this year and a couple more, I say put him in. At the moment though, he isn't deserving of the hall.

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What makes offensive catchers so coveted is the fact that on top of their amazing defense, they still put up numbers. Posada never had amazing defense, so those good offensive numbers should not be held in the same light as Fisk's. Fisk took an absolute beating at the dish from oncoming runners, whereas Posada wouldn't even try to block them.

I understand your point, but the only hole in your argument is Posada not getting in because he wasn't a great defensive player. You argue that Fisk didn't have to be a great offensive player because he was great defensively. Why couldn't the same happen with Posada but for his offense?

Now I don't mean to say that the hole in your argument is because defense isn't important. I agree that Posada is a below-average catcher. I know people are going to say he calls a great game, but he's also had very good pitchers to handle throughout his career so can we really understand the true value of his play-calling ability? Truth is he doesn't throw runners out and he isn't exactly great at preventing wild pitches/passed balls.

If he makes the hall it would be because of his offense and his offense only. It's very possible that voters will value his offense as a catcher and ignore his defense considering that offense has become such a huge mandate of this current era.

But, if he does get in it'll be a close one.

[deeman11747]

Re: Jorge Posada a HOFer?

I still think to be a HOF you need to be what some would call a "game changer." Opposing pitchers have never considered Posada a force to be reckoned with in the lineup, and his defense hasnt been solid enough to overcome that. He's never thrown out runners at the rate guys like Pudge have.

He's a solid offensive player and a great game caller, but not a HOF in my book.