Mazzone done in Baltimore.

**rubisco43** · 10-12-2007, 07:24 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

no... not for a while...

**Lintyfresh85** · 10-12-2007, 07:25 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

I don't agree with this... Bedard and Guthrie made huge strides this year...

Oh well, more years of losing for the O's.

**SPTO** · 10-12-2007, 08:12 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

I thought Mazzone was doing a pretty good job with the O's just look at Bedard and Guthrie. The team also has more young arms that are supposed to be coming up and I think Mazzone would've been a good teacher for them. I have a feeling the only reason he was fired is because he was Perlozzo's friend.

This shows you the stupidity of the Baltimore ownership and front office. Hmm, maybe he'll go back to Atlanta

**TheMatrix31** · 10-12-2007, 08:12 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Please Lord come back to Atlanta.

**rsox** · 10-12-2007, 11:11 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Originally posted by Superstar

I don't agree with this... Bedard and Guthrie made huge strides this year...

Bedard has really blossomed under Mazzone (28-16, 392 K's) and Guthrie was a nice find for the O's, Daniel Cabrera has gone the opposite way. Cabrera could not turn the corner under Mazzone (18-28) and become that #1 or #2 pitcher that most people believe he can be. We know Cabrera's a head case and gets way too emotional on the mound, i don't know if you can blame Mazzone for not being able to fix that-i don't know if any one can.

This is kind of surprising with all of the young pitchers the Orioles have coming up you would think they would want the guy who is regarded as the best pitching coach in the game to help bring them along. But this is just another example of Orioles baseball at it's finest.

**RockyTop1** · 10-12-2007, 11:37 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Go back to ATL!

**DonkeyJote** · 10-13-2007, 02:51 AM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Originally posted by RockyTop1

Go back to ATL!

I wish, but what do you do with McDowell. In all honesty, if he did come back it would probably only be for a year or two when Bobby goes. McDowell is younger, and while he hasn't been great, he hasn't been horrible, and is still pretty inexperienced as a pitching coach. Chuck James hasn't done so bad (22-15, 4.04 ERA in 2 years). Jo Jo Reyes looked really good in September (2-0, 3.10 era). He did a great job with Moylan (90 IP, 1.80era). He also got reclamation project Bennett to succeed, albeit in only three starts. Buddy Carlyle was good for most the year. Villarreal has been good too (11-3, 3.90 era the last two years).

**Holic** · 10-13-2007, 08:48 AM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Bring him home to Atlanta baby!!!!!!

**Kashanova** · 10-13-2007, 08:57 AM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

mets better take advantage and hire this guy

**BaseballCtchr** · 10-13-2007, 10:28 AM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Oh god please Leo dont go to the hated Mets. I would ignore anything you ever did as a Braves pitching coach.

Honestly I dont see the Braves bringing him back. I have always got the feeling that the Braves are too proud to bring him back. I have not seen anything in the media to indicate this but just a hunch.

**DonkeyJote** · 10-14-2007, 01:55 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Originally posted by BaseballCtchr

Oh god please Leo dont go to the hated Mets. I would ignore anything you ever did as a Braves pitching coach.

Honestly I dont see the Braves bringing him back. I have always got the feeling that the Braves are too proud to bring him back. I have not seen anything in the media to indicate this but just a hunch.

I don't know what pride would have to do with it. They never wanted him to go in the first place. Everyone knows that. They didn't fire him. He wanted to work with his longtime friend and they agreed becaused they owed that to him for all he had done. If they want him back now, I honestly don't see how pride would be an issue. They never chose anyone over him - they wouldn't really be admitting a mistake. If pride was going to be an issue, I imagine it would be on Leo's side. That being said, I don't think they try to bring him back, because you would lose McDowell and in 3 years (or less) you are looking for a new pitching coach anyway.

**rsox** · 10-14-2007, 05:31 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

If i were the Pirates i would jump at the chance to hire Mazzone now--even with not having a manager in place. There are some good young arms on that team and maybe Mazzone can fix Zack Duke and undo the damage Jim Tracy caused.

**Havok410** · 10-14-2007, 10:30 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

The bullpen was an absolute mess under Mazzone and really only 2 starters showed improvement. I would've liked him to stay, but I can live without him. Pitching coaches are overrated.

**DonkeyJote** · 10-14-2007, 11:29 PM

Re: Mazzone done in Baltimore.

Originally posted by Havok410

The bullpen was an absolute mess under Mazzone and really only 2 starters showed improvement. I would've liked him to stay, but I can live without him. Pitching coaches are overrated.

While I support sticking with McDowell, I've got to disagree with you there. Some Examples:

John Burkett, 2001 - 12-12, 3.04 era / Before coming to Atlanta he had back to back years with ERAs over 5.62.

Denny Neagle, 1997-1998 - 20-5 2.97 era, 16-11 3.55 era.

Damian Moss, 2002, 12-6 3.42 era - after he left he had eras of 5.16 and 16.88 (in 8 innings). He hasn't played since he was 27 in 2004.

Jaret Wright, 2004, 15-8, 3.28 era - overall his career era is over 5.

John Thompson, 2004-2005, 14-8 3.72 era, 4-6 (only 98 innings) 4.47 era. This first year was the gem, was hampered by injury in year two.

Jorge Sosa, 2005, 13-3 2.55 era. Over two runs lower than his career ERA.

And about the pen, he made successes out of such relievers as
Juan Berenger (2.24 era, 17 saves in 1991)
Greg McMichael (4 of his 5 lowest era seasons came in four years with Atlanta 93-96)
Mark Wholers (from 95-97 he had eras of 2.09, 3.03, and 3.50 and 97 saves in his only years as closer - though he did fall apart)
Pedro Borbon (3.09 and 2.75 in his 2 full years in Atlanta - 4.68 for his career)
Kerry Lightenberg (44 saves and 3.03 era in 5 years - career era is 3.82 and only had 4 saves after leaving)
John Rocker - after leaving Atl he had eras of 5.45, 6.66, 9.00 - when under Mazzone he had eras of 2.13, 2.48, 2.89, 3.09. He was an idiot, but he was a dominant closer - 104 saves in 3 1/2 years in the role.
Mike Remlinger - from 1999-2002 he had eras of 2.37, 3.47, 2.76, 1.99. He has a career era of 3.90.
Kevin McGlinchy - 2.75 in 78 2/3 innings before getting hurt and being forced to retire (I think that's what happened to him)
Chris Hammond - in his one year in ATL he was 7-2 with a 0.95 era
Darren Holmes - had a career year in ATL in 2002 with a 1.81 era.
Tim Spooneybarger - had a 2.63 era with atl in 2002, 4.07 era with florida the next year, and didn't pitch in the majors again.
Antonio Alfonseca had a career best 2.57 era in his only year with the club.
Juan Cruz also had a career low era (2.75) in his one year with the club.
Kyle Farnsworth also recorded a 1.98 era in his 1/2 year with the club.

This is also a good article (albeit a long one) about the Mazzone effect. It shows how Mazzone on average (as of March 2005) lowered a pitchers era .625 on average. http://baseballanalysts.com/archives...zone_eff_1.php

EDIT: Just realized he meant in Baltimore. This took a while to type though, so it's stayin up!

Mazzone done in Baltimore.

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