Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

[SPTO]

I don't like Dusty Baker as a manager but I was just thinking. It seems the retread factor doesn't loom all that large in baseball. I decided to go back to '97 to see how many retreads made the postseason.

Now my definition of retread is a guy that has had at least one stint without making the playoffs. I know some folks might have different ideas but that's mine. So here we go:

1997

Lou Piniella
Joe Torre (sorry but his stints for the Mets and Cards justifies it)
Bobby Cox (it's a technicality tho as his first stnt in Atlanta wasn't too good but he went to the playoffs with Toronto before his 2nd stint in ATL)

1998

Jim Riggleman
Johnny Oates
Jimy Williams
Bobby Valentine

2000

Art Howe

2003

Marlins had the unique position of having TWO retreads that year in Jeff Torborg and Jack McKeon

2004

Phil Garner
Terry Francona

2006

Jim Leyland became a retread by my definition in '06

2007

Bob Melvin


So there you have it retreads can have success in MLB. The reason I don't think retreads statistically aren't so bad in baseball is because other then pulling pitchers and filling the lineup etc etc they do very little to affect a game. Most managers can win or lose 5 games either way. Now there are some cases where you can have a guy be VERY good and win a ton of games (Girardi) or really bad (no one comes to mind at the moment)

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

I don't think retreads are all that bad but one minor error in your research...

Bobby Cox started as the Braves manager again in 1990, not 1997.

[SPTO]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

I don't think retreads are all that bad but one minor error in your research...

Bobby Cox started as the Braves manager again in 1990, not 1997.

I know but I went back to '97 not '90

[NYJets]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

Yea I agree that it's not such a bad thing, and the reason is managers don't have a huge affect.

If you have bad players, you aren't going to be consistently good. If you have good players, you will. Managers make some impact I think, but there's only so much they can do.

Not like football, when a guy like Parcells could go to a bunch of different teams and turn them around, and a guy like Norv Turner can ruin a really good team.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

Well when the Mariners hired Lou, he was three years removed from a world championship. And Art Howe made the playoffs 2000-2002. And that was his first team (he started managing them in 1996, not 2000). Not sure how you can call him a retread? I don't know if I would call Melvin a retread either - he didn't make the playoffs in his two years but in year 1, he did still win 93 games.

[rsox]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

Art Howe made the playoffs 2000-2002. And that was his first team (he started managing them in 1996, not 2000). Not sure how you can call him a retread?

Art Howe managed the Astros from 1989-1993.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

Art Howe managed the Astros from 1989-1993.

Son of gun, you're right. Sorry about that. Still, he had some success there, and not making the playoffs before realignment I don't think it should be a horrible admonishment.

[SPTO]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

Son of gun, you're right. Sorry about that. Still, he had some success there, and not making the playoffs before realignment I don't think it should be a horrible admonishment.

I wouldn't exactly call a combined 392-418 record as some success. He was a mixed bag to say the least, in his 5 seasons as skipper of the Astros he had 2 seasons above .500 and one season smack dab at the .500 mark.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

I wouldn't exactly call a combined 392-418 record as some success. He was a mixed bag to say the least, in his 5 seasons as skipper of the Astros he had 2 seasons above .500 and one season smack dab at the .500 mark.

You're right again. I saw that he finished 3rd in the West twice, but he would have finished 6 games and 2 games back in the new central both years. Unfortunatley for him, in 93, despite 85 wins, they 19 games out of first (18 out of 2nd). It's my opinion that the 1993 Giants were a big reason for the wild card. Second best record in baseball (1 back of Atlanta) and they completely missed the playoffs. They would have won the current day NL West by 22 games.

[Blzer]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

At first I thought the title said "******s".

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

At first I thought the title said "******s".

Well talk about Dusty Baker did spawn this thread.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Are retreads such a bad thing in baseball?

At first I thought the title said "******s".

So did I at first.