One thing baseball video-games don't have enough of is.....

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  • FloridaGamer
    Banned
    • Mar 2003
    • 104

    #1

    One thing baseball video-games don't have enough of is.....

    RANDOMNESS. Baseball video games need to have more randomness! They have slowly been adding this into their games---but not fast enough in my opinion. Most of them do account for random offline throws, random dropped balls---but not nearly enough to make the game even remotely realistic.

    ****** THIS IS THE REASON THAT SO MANY PEOPLE GET BORED WITH BASEBALL VIDEO GAMES EVERY YEAR****

    Ask yourself this..... when was the last time you were able to play a complete season of any baseball video game without getting bored to death? .....or even to the All-Star break???? These games are way too predictable and stagnant. I was reading the Operation Sports interview with an ASB spokesperson, where the spokesperson said something to the effect of "We have tweaked the baserunning, but they will NEVER get caught making the first out at third base!"

    I say--- "WHY NOT????" Of course, the old baseball rule says Don't ever get caught making the first out at third base.....but guess what? It FREAKIN HAPPENS in real baseball. Does it happen alot? No. But does it happen? HELL YES IT HAPPENS! In real baseball, how often do you an outfielder make a bad break on the ball---only to let it drop for a basehit, or how often do you see an infielder take a chance and try to get the lead runner at second--only to fail and have runners at first and second? It doesn't happen every game, but it does happen in real life. Now ask yourself---how often do you see this from the CPU in videogame baseball? NEVER. EVER. If the CPU knows it can't the lead runner, it will automatically get the easy out at first.....it doesn't even try because the program tells it that it won't get the lead runner. The CPU will never make a bad break on a ball---or take a bad angle at cutting off a gapper.....instead it robotically runs directly to the ball every time.

    So why not program some unpredictability in the baserunning model?
    Why not program some unpredictability in the pitching model?
    Why not program some unpredictability in the batting model?
    Why not program some unpredictability in the fielding model?

    Why do all of these supposed next-gen baseball games still have the same old boring by-the-book rules and physics? You NEVER see the CPU try to stretch out a single into a double and get caught.....the CPU is programmed to only go for the extra base if they can actually make it. The CPU is programmed to only throw to a base to get you out if they actually can get you out!! If the CPU knows that you will beat the throw---EVEN IF IT IS ONLY BY A FOOT--they will usually just stand there with the ball and let you slide in to the base. This is true with pretty much every baseball game out there.

    The AI in these games is so boring and robotic and predictable and has been like this forever. Just adding in a couple of random dropped balls or random offline throws is not going to cut it anymore. Why don't gamers make a bigger issue out of this? Why are they happy to get these baseball-strictly-by-the-rules videogames every year?
  • DouglasMcc
    Rookie
    • Aug 2002
    • 141

    #2
    Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

    Two reasons I can think of (mind you I don't necessarily agree with both but they are here).
    1.) Most main stream gamers don't want a lot of randomness in their games. When they throw to 3rd, they want the ball to make it there. I prefer realistic throws (and errors) but the company needs to appeal to all consumers and us hardcore sports gamers here actually account for a very small percent of actual sells. (But sliders similar to HH and WSB would work).
    2.) Randomness is very hard to program for. When you are programming an actual rule (three strikes, your out) its easy to program the AI. Computers are great at determining and implementing these "set in stone" rules. But Randomness implies a certain chaos theory element. And most PCs and game consoles today don't have enough processing power to do "true" randomness. You can program in a variable for error, but most of the time, it looks exactly the same and happens at the same time with all other players (sort of like random play on a cheap CD player.. it will play the songs in a random order once, but then repeats them again in the same random order). Since this all ends up looking "staged" anyway, the programmers don't waste their time outside minor things (occasional bad aim on throws, dropped 3rd strikes). I don't really want the programmer to try to impliment "random" events until they can do it correctly.

    Comment

    • DouglasMcc
      Rookie
      • Aug 2002
      • 141

      #3
      Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

      Two reasons I can think of (mind you I don't necessarily agree with both but they are here).
      1.) Most main stream gamers don't want a lot of randomness in their games. When they throw to 3rd, they want the ball to make it there. I prefer realistic throws (and errors) but the company needs to appeal to all consumers and us hardcore sports gamers here actually account for a very small percent of actual sells. (But sliders similar to HH and WSB would work).
      2.) Randomness is very hard to program for. When you are programming an actual rule (three strikes, your out) its easy to program the AI. Computers are great at determining and implementing these "set in stone" rules. But Randomness implies a certain chaos theory element. And most PCs and game consoles today don't have enough processing power to do "true" randomness. You can program in a variable for error, but most of the time, it looks exactly the same and happens at the same time with all other players (sort of like random play on a cheap CD player.. it will play the songs in a random order once, but then repeats them again in the same random order). Since this all ends up looking "staged" anyway, the programmers don't waste their time outside minor things (occasional bad aim on throws, dropped 3rd strikes). I don't really want the programmer to try to impliment "random" events until they can do it correctly.

      Comment

      • soltrain
        The Batman
        • Feb 2003
        • 6863

        #4
        Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

        Plus that would make some people really mad if they lost the game for a drop third strike, or a pass ball or something

        Me? Im all for it, but I think the general public would hate it
        Michigan Wolverines
        Chicago White Sox

        Comment

        • soltrain
          The Batman
          • Feb 2003
          • 6863

          #5
          Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

          Plus that would make some people really mad if they lost the game for a drop third strike, or a pass ball or something

          Me? Im all for it, but I think the general public would hate it
          Michigan Wolverines
          Chicago White Sox

          Comment

          • marcobe1
            Rookie
            • Feb 2003
            • 80

            #6
            Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

            I know I would.

            Comment

            • marcobe1
              Rookie
              • Feb 2003
              • 80

              #7
              Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

              I know I would.

              Comment

              • GridironGamer
                Rookie
                • Jul 2002
                • 498

                #8
                Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                but that is part of the game. Dropping a 3rd strike that could lose a game. just like fumbling the ball at the 1 yard line. Thats what makes the game more exciting--less predictable. This is what happens in real life. In other words, its what makes us human and NOT robots.

                Comment

                • GridironGamer
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 498

                  #9
                  Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                  but that is part of the game. Dropping a 3rd strike that could lose a game. just like fumbling the ball at the 1 yard line. Thats what makes the game more exciting--less predictable. This is what happens in real life. In other words, its what makes us human and NOT robots.

                  Comment

                  • DouglasMcc
                    Rookie
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 141

                    #10
                    Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                    Sure, its part of the game (thats in all seriousness... not my usual sarcasm ). Im all for that. But think about this: Pudge is catching for your team. 2 strikes, 2 balls. You are tied in the ninth. You come with the heat. Batter swings and misses but Pudge drops the strike. Its a speedy runner who makes it to first ahead of the play. Next guy belts a homer to right field, you lose. In real life, you could go...."damn Pudge, but I guess even the greats make a mistake on occasion." In a video game, you are going to be think, "damn game cheated me... no way Pudge drops that." No matter how you rationalize it, you will always wonder if it was truly random or some programmers attempt at "miracle comeback AI" (High Heat veterans know what I mean ). This will anger the casual fans and companies want to avoid this.

                    Comment

                    • DouglasMcc
                      Rookie
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 141

                      #11
                      Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                      Sure, its part of the game (thats in all seriousness... not my usual sarcasm ). Im all for that. But think about this: Pudge is catching for your team. 2 strikes, 2 balls. You are tied in the ninth. You come with the heat. Batter swings and misses but Pudge drops the strike. Its a speedy runner who makes it to first ahead of the play. Next guy belts a homer to right field, you lose. In real life, you could go...."damn Pudge, but I guess even the greats make a mistake on occasion." In a video game, you are going to be think, "damn game cheated me... no way Pudge drops that." No matter how you rationalize it, you will always wonder if it was truly random or some programmers attempt at "miracle comeback AI" (High Heat veterans know what I mean ). This will anger the casual fans and companies want to avoid this.

                      Comment

                      • FloridaGamer
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 104

                        #12
                        Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                        ^^^^ That is exactly NOT what I would be thinking. You know what I would really be thinking? I would be thinking "Finally I lost a baseball game due to a random error after all of these years of predictable games" and I would be smiling emphatically.

                        If it was truly random, and only happened on rare occasions....then I would be happy as hell to lose over something like that--that is exactly what I am wanting to happen more often!!! That is exactly what baseball games need to get away from---boring, mundane, robotic, predictable computer AI. You guys are turning this into a "you will lose all of your games if this happens" argument---that's not what this is about. It is about playing a game of baseball, and never knowing what can happen when you take the field....just like real life. Computer programs have been able to generate randomness for nearly 50 years now....there's a difference between programming randomness and programming "AI catchup logic".

                        Comment

                        • FloridaGamer
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 104

                          #13
                          Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                          ^^^^ That is exactly NOT what I would be thinking. You know what I would really be thinking? I would be thinking "Finally I lost a baseball game due to a random error after all of these years of predictable games" and I would be smiling emphatically.

                          If it was truly random, and only happened on rare occasions....then I would be happy as hell to lose over something like that--that is exactly what I am wanting to happen more often!!! That is exactly what baseball games need to get away from---boring, mundane, robotic, predictable computer AI. You guys are turning this into a "you will lose all of your games if this happens" argument---that's not what this is about. It is about playing a game of baseball, and never knowing what can happen when you take the field....just like real life. Computer programs have been able to generate randomness for nearly 50 years now....there's a difference between programming randomness and programming "AI catchup logic".

                          Comment

                          • GridironGamer
                            Rookie
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 498

                            #14
                            Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                            i agree in part with what you say. But i think back to the Buckner boot that cost Boston its best chance at a championship. if you could recreate that in a baseball sim, you the player realizing that this could justifiably happen, rare but could happen, no AI cheats, then you could have something.

                            Comment

                            • GridironGamer
                              Rookie
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 498

                              #15
                              Re: One thing baseball video-games don\'t have enough of is.....

                              i agree in part with what you say. But i think back to the Buckner boot that cost Boston its best chance at a championship. if you could recreate that in a baseball sim, you the player realizing that this could justifiably happen, rare but could happen, no AI cheats, then you could have something.

                              Comment

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