Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year's baseball games

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  • cub
    MVP
    • Mar 2003
    • 1126

    #1

    Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year's baseball games

    This post from the HighHeat2004.net forums has really made me think twice about my game(s) of choice this year. I think we gamers sometimes overanalyze the whole situation, and it's nice to see a fresh perspective from someone like this.

    NOTE: I'm no All Star Baseball fanatic, and I really don't care which baseball game you and your loved ones play this year... but I just thought this post made a lot of interesting points.


    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    I've been a baseball sim fanatic my whole life (even to the point of playing board games like Pursue the Pennant - creating leagues, keeping stats, and such). The video games I got into as a kid were Bases Loaded on the NES and the Hardball series on the PC. I enjoyed the World Series games on the Genesis mainly because of the quality of the 2 player hitter/batter confrontation. Once I moved on to PS &amp; PS2 I got turned off to the baseball games (namely EA's triple play) because they were too arcade-like i.e. too many tape measure homers as opposed to grounders to short, shots off the centerfield wall resulting in a single. Plus, the graphics &amp; animations didn't feel right. They were more detailed, but that detail revealed the glaring imperfections. I haven't been able to really enjoy a baseball game on the PS or PS2 without cursing the flaws of the game. When I play sports sim video games (be it football, basketball, or baseball) I want it to play real, look real, and flow real. If the games flaws are going to take the fun out of it, I just won't play.


    I decided to give this year's crop of baseball games a chance because when the game you are playing is good, it's more fun to follow the sport in real life. Being out of the baseball sim world for a few years. I was going to start with High Heat because I read somewhere (probably on a forum) that it was the best sim. I checked the websites and read the hype ready to be dazzled at how far baseball games have come while I was away. When I got the game I was disappointed with its choppy play and camera cuts. The players were not very individual. The body types were very similar, most faces were poorly rendered, everyone wore their uni in the same way. I had to put the fielding cam on the highest level and take off the closeup cam to hide the poor animations and game flow. I did like the batting interface which did not use a cursor. And I loved playing from the TV angle behind the pitcher which I haven't seen reproduced that well since hardball on the PC. After adjusting the sliders a little here and there I felt like I had a game that played a good sim and could be my game for the season. The games I played were low scoring and felt very authentic. I was disappointed that I had to do so much manipulation to the default game to get it where I liked it. But at least the game allows for that kind of customization which I hold in high regard. I just couldn't help being disappointed in the look and flow of the game. Also, I heard about a few bugs that were inexcusable, like runs scoring on 3rd out fly balls. Another thing that would have been nice would have been being able to pick the alternate unis, let alone throwback unis.


    Anyway, I decided to check out the new Allstar 2004 for the PS2. And I was enthused when the opening montage displayed Lou Gehrig's farewell speech followed by great baseball highlights of players from Ruth to Jackie Robinson to Bonds. The theme from The Natural is played while you navigate menus. I was pumped before the first at bat. My first at bat was a ground out to short by the way which looked absolutely perfect. The fielder scooped and threw in a real-life motion. The first base man had to pick it. Got him by two steps. I immediately wondered how I could have been satisfied by HH04. The flow of the game, player movement, and intricacies of play are 5 times closer to real life than HH. One cool thing about fielding is that you can press the throw button before he gets the ball and he'll wheel and deal without hesitation in a nice smooth crow hop or (if he's got time) a little double clutch and toss.


    The batter interface is more difficult than HH. Mainly because of reaction time differences. But there are options. You can choose from two different cursors. One cursor can be adjusted in 3-D to change bat angles to try to go the other way or try to hit one in the air and so on. Or you can use zone hitting which is similar to HH's method and uses no cursor at all. I found it very hard at first but felt myself improving to a point of comfort. But you still have to be focused on every pitch or you'll get schooled. As great as the game play is it's the extras that put this game up there with the best I've ever seen. Here's a few things I noticed in my 4 hours of play last night:


    All-time great teams (most you need to unlock) - Alltime MLB, Current All MLB, Rookie team, All-Negro Leagues, Pre-War All-Stars, Post-War, Deadball, etc., etc.


    All the old players are crafted to their likeness just like the modern guys. Impressive.


    All modern ballparks, like several future ball parks (post renovation Wrigley &amp; Fenway, New parks in St.Louis, Minnesota, San Diego, and more)


    Old ballparks, namely Shibe, Sportsmans, Polo Grounds, Tiger Stadium, Astrodome, etc. No Ebbets though. Still Amazing.


    Like 12 Fantasy parks for the expansion team mode. All of these are unique and very real.


    All parks have a flyby which points out its features.


    Nearly every team has both an alternate and a throwback uni.


    Expansion mode where you get to pick a multitude of cities, cool mascots and unis, and fantasy stadiums. Expansion draft included.


    Hella deep franchise mode w/ forty man rosters, minor leagues, trades, trading block (other teams approach you), DL, arbitration, franchise and MLB records kept, etc. etc. Offseason with winter meetings and hall of fame inductions.


    Manage only mode, very interactive.


    Oh yeah, homers don't just disappear. They'll tag an upperdeck seat or they'll hit the façade or the scoreboard and bounce back on to the field to the dejected outfielder.


    Slick in game play by play &amp; color commentary. I'm no FOX fan or Steve Lyons fan but this is as good as I've ever heard.

    Situation mode where you have to change what really happened. Uses real video. I think this is where you do most of the unlocking.

    Multimedia shows (haven't done yet)


    And the kicker - Downloadable Updated Rosters!!!! No more spending hours trying to get the Detroit and Tampa Bay bullpens right. I've been known to do this.


    In short, if you appreciate baseball history and want the best sim out there. It's Allstar.

    This is not a knock on HH. It has its good points. Just an unbiased opinion from someone who has spent a lot of life hours playing real-life baseball, playing baseball sims, collecting cards, reading about hall of famers and thinking about what a perfect baseball video game should have.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
  • triplej96
    24fps
    • Aug 2002
    • 2152

    #2
    Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

    I still didnt like the gameplay aspect of it felt like last year I'm waiting for WSB! Good post thoe by whoever wrote that.
    -Josh

    Comment

    • triplej96
      24fps
      • Aug 2002
      • 2152

      #3
      Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

      I still didnt like the gameplay aspect of it felt like last year I'm waiting for WSB! Good post thoe by whoever wrote that.
      -Josh

      Comment

      • JRod
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 3266

        #4
        Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

        I think it's just a fan boy post. No one in the right mind thinks that ASB is the best gameplay out there. It has a lot of features no other game has but the best sim that's a stretch.

        Even ASB fanboys concede there are some problems with it.

        Comment

        • JRod
          MVP
          • Jul 2002
          • 3266

          #5
          Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

          I think it's just a fan boy post. No one in the right mind thinks that ASB is the best gameplay out there. It has a lot of features no other game has but the best sim that's a stretch.

          Even ASB fanboys concede there are some problems with it.

          Comment

          • Diablo25
            Pro
            • Nov 2002
            • 833

            #6
            Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

            You either hate ASB or love it....and there is nothing wrong with that. I just hope everyone gets the game of their dreams this year.

            Comment

            • Diablo25
              Pro
              • Nov 2002
              • 833

              #7
              Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

              You either hate ASB or love it....and there is nothing wrong with that. I just hope everyone gets the game of their dreams this year.

              Comment

              • kac
                Pro
                • Feb 2003
                • 530

                #8
                Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                i didnt play allstar this year but ive hated it ever since it left the n64.last years fielding was terrible every time you would dive for the ball it was impossible to catch it because the fielders were slow and wouldnt react fast enough they would dive over the ball in slow motion. Has this changed this year?

                Comment

                • kac
                  Pro
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 530

                  #9
                  Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                  i didnt play allstar this year but ive hated it ever since it left the n64.last years fielding was terrible every time you would dive for the ball it was impossible to catch it because the fielders were slow and wouldnt react fast enough they would dive over the ball in slow motion. Has this changed this year?

                  Comment

                  • BatsareBugs
                    LVP
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 12553

                    #10
                    Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                    ASB has changed (IMO) from last years drastically. I give Acclaim Studios credit for it. The fielding feels different (outfielders are still kinda slow). The camera view after the ball is hit is kinda cool. keep it up ASA.

                    Comment

                    • BatsareBugs
                      LVP
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 12553

                      #11
                      Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                      ASB has changed (IMO) from last years drastically. I give Acclaim Studios credit for it. The fielding feels different (outfielders are still kinda slow). The camera view after the ball is hit is kinda cool. keep it up ASA.

                      Comment

                      • HMcCoy
                        All Star
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 8212

                        #12
                        Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        I think it's just a fan boy post. No one in the right mind thinks that ASB is the best gameplay out there. It has a lot of features no other game has but the best sim that's a stretch.

                        Even ASB fanboys concede there are some problems with it.

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                        HH seems to have looooongtime fanboys who will never admit anything is or will ever be better. I also find it amusing that a lot of those fanboys have a horrible time with the more realistic pitch speeds of ASB.

                        Fat pitcher ( an admitted HH fan ) probably summed up the difference best when he said that a real slider only moves 4-5 inches but in HH it would be too easy to hit a ball with that little movement with zone hitting, so the pitches have to be "exaggerated". To me this means they had to make the pitches unrealistic to compensate for the interface. Where is the realism in that?

                        I actually considered deleting this post because I really kinda like the HH / ASB fanboys playing nicely in their own threads ( Keep-em-seppa-RAY-ted ), but this is no flame on HH, my best bud has it and we've played a few pretty good games. Just a defense of those ASB fans who like the realistic gameplay.
                        Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                        Comment

                        • HMcCoy
                          All Star
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 8212

                          #13
                          Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          I think it's just a fan boy post. No one in the right mind thinks that ASB is the best gameplay out there. It has a lot of features no other game has but the best sim that's a stretch.

                          Even ASB fanboys concede there are some problems with it.

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                          HH seems to have looooongtime fanboys who will never admit anything is or will ever be better. I also find it amusing that a lot of those fanboys have a horrible time with the more realistic pitch speeds of ASB.

                          Fat pitcher ( an admitted HH fan ) probably summed up the difference best when he said that a real slider only moves 4-5 inches but in HH it would be too easy to hit a ball with that little movement with zone hitting, so the pitches have to be "exaggerated". To me this means they had to make the pitches unrealistic to compensate for the interface. Where is the realism in that?

                          I actually considered deleting this post because I really kinda like the HH / ASB fanboys playing nicely in their own threads ( Keep-em-seppa-RAY-ted ), but this is no flame on HH, my best bud has it and we've played a few pretty good games. Just a defense of those ASB fans who like the realistic gameplay.
                          Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

                          Comment

                          • matthewk
                            Pro
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 916

                            #14
                            Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                            I thought that post was very well thought and intelligent. ASB fanboy my ***.

                            I have played HH ever since HH1999 on the PC. I bought it the first week it came out and have been hooked ever since.

                            This year I decided to open up my eyes to the other games, mainly because HH was beginning to be the same 'ol thing each year.

                            I rented HH 2004 last week to give it one more try. The new animations are slick, but the game is still the same. Does it produce realistic results? yes. But then look closer at WHY it produces such results. It does so at the expense of user input. I don't want 25-35 scores, but I am now in the mood to have more control over my own destiny.

                            I must be out of mind, according to Jrod, since I think ASB has great gameplay. Is it perfect? No. But it does a lot of little things so well that you tend to overlook the weaknesses. Kinda like HH, huh? ASB has poor diving controls and some baserunning issues. HH has a pop-fly bug (it also had a pop up bug in the PC version for Wrigley) and issues with bunting. Both games are great in their own way, and both do a good job of representing the game of baseball, abeit in their own way.

                            -Matt

                            Comment

                            • matthewk
                              Pro
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 916

                              #15
                              Re: Must-read post from HH2004 forums about this year\'s baseball games

                              I thought that post was very well thought and intelligent. ASB fanboy my ***.

                              I have played HH ever since HH1999 on the PC. I bought it the first week it came out and have been hooked ever since.

                              This year I decided to open up my eyes to the other games, mainly because HH was beginning to be the same 'ol thing each year.

                              I rented HH 2004 last week to give it one more try. The new animations are slick, but the game is still the same. Does it produce realistic results? yes. But then look closer at WHY it produces such results. It does so at the expense of user input. I don't want 25-35 scores, but I am now in the mood to have more control over my own destiny.

                              I must be out of mind, according to Jrod, since I think ASB has great gameplay. Is it perfect? No. But it does a lot of little things so well that you tend to overlook the weaknesses. Kinda like HH, huh? ASB has poor diving controls and some baserunning issues. HH has a pop-fly bug (it also had a pop up bug in the PC version for Wrigley) and issues with bunting. Both games are great in their own way, and both do a good job of representing the game of baseball, abeit in their own way.

                              -Matt

                              Comment

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