Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

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  • dkgojackets
    Banned
    • Mar 2005
    • 13816

    #61
    Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

    Originally posted by YankeePride
    Not sure how anyone can look at average and ignore OBP. OBP includes average and then-some and if the guy's OBP is amazing, why does his average matter?
    Being completely serious here, its because a ton of people who make up the bulk of baseball fans use fantasy baseball value as a barometer for how good a player is, and OBP isnt a standard fantasy stat while average is.

    Comment

    • CMH
      Making you famous
      • Oct 2002
      • 26203

      #62
      Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

      Originally posted by dkgojackets
      Being completely serious here, its because a ton of people who make up the bulk of baseball fans use fantasy baseball value as a barometer for how good a player is, and OBP isnt a standard fantasy stat while average is.
      It's just so confusing because I always read comments like, "Stat heads put too much value into a single stat." And it just isn't true.

      Stat heads put value into all stats and compare them with each other. When someone argues over just batting average and ignores OBP then you're not looking at the whole picture.

      Open your eyes, fans.
      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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      • snepp
        We'll waste him too.
        • Apr 2003
        • 10007

        #63
        Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

        Originally posted by YankeePride
        It's just so confusing because I always read comments like, "Stat heads put too much value into a single stat." And it just isn't true.

        Stat heads put value into all stats and compare them with each other. When someone argues over just batting average and ignores OBP then you're not looking at the whole picture.
        This is exactly right.

        You can substitute the same argument for RBI, wins, saves, etc. Not only are they highly limited stats to start with, they routinely get used as some definitive barometer of a player's quality.
        Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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        • CMH
          Making you famous
          • Oct 2002
          • 26203

          #64
          Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

          Originally posted by snepp
          This is exactly right.

          You can substitute the same argument for RBI, wins, saves, etc. Not only are they highly limited stats to start with, they routinely get used as some definitive barometer of a player's quality.
          And this is the thing I want to add.

          Just because we view Wins, Saves, RBI as limited does not mean we think they are worthless.

          No saber-head is going to say that you should never look at RBI. That's never the idea.

          The idea is that RBI is overrated. It shouldn't be the definitive barometer as you've mentioned.

          It has some value. It's worth something. But it's not worth everything and to some, it's not worth much.
          "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

          "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

          Comment

          • Motown
            OS Brew Connoisseur
            • Jul 2002
            • 9169

            #65
            Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

            Originally posted by dkgojackets
            pretty sure there is already a big thread on this imo
            What are you now..the "official thread police" now? room to room

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            • agonytheclown
              Rookie
              • Feb 2008
              • 109

              #66
              Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

              Dunn has power, and that's it. For all the homeruns and RBI's he knocks in, I don't remember the last time I saw a slugger with such a poor RISP stat. His HR-RBI ratio has to be a historical low. And the guy is a loser mentality. Maybe having his buddy Junior gone will put his back against the wall.

              Comment

              • Sandman42
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2004
                • 15186

                #67
                Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                Originally posted by agonytheclown
                Dunn has power, and that's it. For all the homeruns and RBI's he knocks in, I don't remember the last time I saw a slugger with such a poor RISP stat. His HR-RBI ratio has to be a historical low. And the guy is a loser mentality. Maybe having his buddy Junior gone will put his back against the wall.
                Dunn's OPS w/ RISP:

                2005 - 1.042
                2006 - .923
                2007 - .814
                2008 - .967

                Try again.
                Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007

                  #68
                  Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                  Originally posted by Sandman42
                  Dunn's OPS w/ RISP:

                  2005 - 1.042
                  2006 - .923
                  2007 - .814
                  2008 - .967

                  Try again.
                  Don't bring facts into this.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                  Comment

                  • PhantomPain
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 3512

                    #69
                    Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                    Originally posted by snepp
                    Don't bring facts into this.
                    Wow snepp, you are 6 for 7 in this thread for being sarcastic and adding nothing to the conversation. Well done.
                    #WeAreUK

                    Comment

                    • Sportsforever
                      NL MVP
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 20368

                      #70
                      Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                      Originally posted by PhantomPain
                      Wow snepp, you are 6 for 7 in this thread for being sarcastic and adding nothing to the conversation. Well done.
                      I think his point was well made...seriously, plenty of folks are throwing all sorts of "opinions" around, but the numbers don't back up the opinions.
                      Last edited by Sportsforever; 08-03-2008, 08:13 PM.
                      "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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                      • snepp
                        We'll waste him too.
                        • Apr 2003
                        • 10007

                        #71
                        Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                        Originally posted by PhantomPain
                        Wow snepp, you are 6 for 7 in this thread for being sarcastic and adding nothing to the conversation. Well done.
                        Page me when you're ready to dig your head out of the sand, I'll throw you a shovel.
                        Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                        Comment

                        • PhantomPain
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 3512

                          #72
                          Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                          Originally posted by snepp
                          Page me when you're ready to dig your head out of the sand, I'll throw you a shovel.
                          lol..good stuff
                          #WeAreUK

                          Comment

                          • PhantomPain
                            MVP
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 3512

                            #73
                            Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                            Originally posted by Sportsforever
                            I think his point was well made...seriously, plenty of folks are throwing all sorts of "opinions" around, but the numbers don't back up the facts.
                            I didn't say he was wrong...I just found it humorous that 6 out of 7...ok now 7 out of 8 posts of his in this thread have been sarcastic remarks. Doesn't add anything to the discussion but I admit it does entertain.
                            #WeAreUK

                            Comment

                            • ChubbyBanana
                              Don't Trust Influencers
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 7071

                              #74
                              Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                              I would take Dunn on my team. Over the past few seasons it seems (I have no stats to back this up, just from a fan's perspective) [/i] that he's cut down on his strikeout numbers, while still continuing to be a solid hitter.

                              One other thing he seems to have improved on is his defensive skills. A couple of years ago they were just bad, now he seems to have a chance.

                              Just my two cents

                              -AS
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                              • slickdtc
                                Grayscale
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 17125

                                #75
                                Re: Thoughts On Adam Dunn?

                                I think all this dislike (from some) about Adam Dunn is a result of a few things. His nonchalant attitude is one. Another is the team and their struggles. Dunn is supposed to be the great hitter of the team and when the team is slumping, fans turn to him to make it all better, which he can't by himself.

                                I was just looking at Ryan Howard's numbers. Some have him as the NL MVP. But he's hitting around the same average as Dunn but with a 50 point drop off in OBP. And he has 30 more strikeouts. However, Howard has 20is more RBI's. I think this is the glaring difference; Howard has people to knock in, Dunn does not. If the players in front of Dunn would get on base, he'd have just as many RBI's as Howard, if not more.

                                Dunn takes the heat because his team isn't performing. Unfortunate, but it looks like that's the case.
                                NHL - Philadelphia Flyers
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                                Originally posted by Money99
                                And how does one levy a check that will result in only a slight concussion? Do they set their shoulder-pads to 'stun'?

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