The 4 Man Rotation

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  • duke776
    MVP
    • Nov 2006
    • 3044

    #16
    Re: The 4 Man Rotation

    Originally posted by rsox
    Harang might have. It would explain how he went from 16-6 with a 3.73 ERA in '07 to 6-17 with a 4.79 ERA in '08.
    He threw 121 pitches in that game, but I don't think Harangs problem was from the 10 innings pitched that game last year, he was fine until earlier this year when he got hurt. His record is a little decieving because he started out pretty good but the reds gave him little run support and then he got injured and wasn't the same after it.

    Comment

    • DrJones
      All Star
      • Mar 2003
      • 9109

      #17
      Re: The 4 Man Rotation

      Originally posted by bsb13
      I still believe good pitching will always beat good hitting.
      Always? Doesn't seem like Boston's "good hitting" is having many problems beating the Angels' "good pitching".
      Originally posted by Thrash13
      Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
      Originally posted by slickdtc
      DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
      Originally posted by Kipnis22
      yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

      Comment

      • dkgojackets
        Banned
        • Mar 2005
        • 13816

        #18
        Re: The 4 Man Rotation

        Originally posted by bsb13
        I still believe good pitching will always beat good hitting.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

        Comment

        • pfunk880
          MVP
          • Jul 2004
          • 4452

          #19
          Re: The 4 Man Rotation

          Originally posted by dkgojackets
          Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
          Well put.
          Green Bay Packers | Milwaukee Brewers | Bradley Braves | Wisconsin Badgers
          Marquette Golden Eagles | Milwaukee Bucks | Milwaukee Panthers

          Comment

          • bsb13
            Banned
            • Mar 2005
            • 3439

            #20
            Re: The 4 Man Rotation

            Originally posted by DrJones
            Always? Doesn't seem like Boston's "good hitting" is having many problems beating the Angels' "good pitching".
            Depends on how you look at it. If they are hitting their pitchers hard, then thats not really good pitching.

            I do think GREAT hitting will beat good pitching though, but good hitting vs good pitching....I believe the pitching will win every time. Just my opinion.

            Comment

            • dkgojackets
              Banned
              • Mar 2005
              • 13816

              #21
              Re: The 4 Man Rotation

              Originally posted by bsb13
              Depends on how you look at it. If they are hitting their pitchers hard, then thats not really good pitching.
              lol

              Then I could say if the batters are making outs then thats not really good hitting.

              If getting an out = good pitching and getting a hit = good batting, then how could both be going against each other?

              Comment

              • theaub
                Stop! Homer Time!
                • Feb 2004
                • 9643

                #22
                Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                Originally posted by DrJones
                From what I've read and heard, this is correct. Excessive pitch counts are what hurt arms, not the time between starts. The reason why it's somewhat risky for CC is that he's never done it before, and he's being asked to throw 110+ pitches per start. People who pine for the good old days should also remember that the average lineup is superior today to the teams of 20, 30, 40 years ago. Remember the days when the majority of 2B, SS, and C were .220-hitting defensive specialists? Those days are gone.
                Yup. BP released their pitcher abuse points (complicated formula), and outside of some outliers who are on the list every year (and by outliers I mean outlier in Roy Halladay), most of the guys near the top usually suffer some problems the next year. #1 this year set an undisputed record though for most points. The previous record was something like 148,000, but Tim Lincecum had 174,543 points. More or less, his arm is going to explode next July. And Lincecum made 0 starts on short rest, but did have a ton of 120+ pitch starts.
                Blue Jays, Blackhawks, Auburn

                Comment

                • bsb13
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2005
                  • 3439

                  #23
                  Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                  Originally posted by dkgojackets
                  lol

                  Then I could say if the batters are making outs then thats not really good hitting.

                  If getting an out = good pitching and getting a hit = good batting, then how could both be going against each other?
                  Look, even Major League players will say that good pitching will beat good hitting. How many years have you played in the majors? So who should I listen to? Major League ball player's or Major League OS'ers?

                  Comment

                  • snepp
                    We'll waste him too.
                    • Apr 2003
                    • 10007

                    #24
                    Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                    Basing an entire argument around a cliche isn't very convincing.
                    Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                    Comment

                    • bsb13
                      Banned
                      • Mar 2005
                      • 3439

                      #25
                      Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                      Originally posted by snepp
                      Basing an entire argument around a cliche isn't very convincing.
                      Things become a cliche because they are true.

                      Comment

                      • dkgojackets
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 13816

                        #26
                        Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                        Your whole argument is that if a player gets a hit then it isn't "good pitching", which is completely invalid logically because it means you identified the factors after the event has already occured.

                        How is that any different from saying if the pitcher gets an out than he isn't actually going up against "good hitting"?

                        Did you happen to go to uga?

                        Comment

                        • bsb13
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 3439

                          #27
                          Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                          Originally posted by dkgojackets
                          Your whole argument is that if a player gets a hit then it isn't "good pitching", which is completely invalid logically because it means you identified the factors after the event has already occured.

                          How is that any different from saying if the pitcher gets an out than he isn't actually going up against "good hitting"?

                          Did you happen to go to uga?
                          I'm not saying every hit is due to bad pitching. Just because a team gets some hits and even some runs doesn't always mean the hitting is winning. If a team can hold another team to just 3 or 4 runs in a game, in my mind, the pitching won. I probably went a little too far by saying that good pitching ALWAYS beats good hitting, but I do believe it does most of the time. And as far as if I went to UGA or not...dont even go there, because everyone born and raised in Georgia knows UGA owns. Go Dawgs.

                          Anyway, agree or disagree but I'm tired of arguing about it because it really doesn't make much difference to me either way lol.
                          Last edited by bsb13; 10-06-2008, 05:49 PM.

                          Comment

                          • dkgojackets
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 13816

                            #28
                            Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                            lol so you did go there

                            funny how one can connect embarrassingly poor thinking and logic to a uga "education" even with no other information

                            Comment

                            • bsb13
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3439

                              #29
                              Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                              Originally posted by dkgojackets
                              lol so you did go there

                              funny how one can connect embarrassingly poor thinking and logic to a uga "education" even with no other information
                              lol, I dont know why your getting such an attitude. And by the way I never said I went to UGA. Congratulations though, you may be the first person I put on ignore since I've been here at OS. I've come across enough of your post in other threads to know that I have finally got my feel.

                              Comment

                              • DrJones
                                All Star
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 9109

                                #30
                                Re: The 4 Man Rotation

                                Originally posted by bsb13
                                Look, even Major League players will say that good pitching will beat good hitting. How many years have you played in the majors? So who should I listen to? Major League ball player's or Major League OS'ers?
                                I guess I should go into every game-related thread on this site and proclaim everybody's opinion worthless except mine, because I make games for a living and they don't. Good to know.
                                Originally posted by Thrash13
                                Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                                Originally posted by slickdtc
                                DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                                Originally posted by Kipnis22
                                yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                                Comment

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