Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

[AUTiger1]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

Whoa there. Adrian Beltre didn't repeat 2004 at the plate, but he hasn't bombed in Seattle. The guy is underpaid if anything. The difference is that Jones defense has regressed, while Beltre worked hard and turned himself into one of the best defensive 3B in baseball.

Playing at Safeco doesn't help Beltre either. His numbers would go up around the board if he didn't play in a park that is death to right hand pull hitters. Especially him since his power is towards LC-CF and that's a graveyard for would be HR's for anybody in baseball.

He's been consitent with his power numbers but only one season above a .270 average since he went to the M's.

Sorry if we have different thoughts of average, good, great, elite hitters are.

Here is how I break it down.

.300 - above - Elite hitter
.290 - .300 - Great hitter
.280 - .290 - Good hitter
.270 - .280 - Above Average hitter
.260 - below - Average hitter at best

[Coug00]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

He's been consitent with his power numbers but only one season above a .270 average since he went to the M's.

Sorry if we have different thoughts of average, good, great, elite hitters are.

Here is how I break it down.

.300 - above - Elite hitter
.290 - .300 - Great hitter
.280 - .290 - Good hitter
.270 - .280 - Above Average hitter
.260 - below - Average hitter at best

I agree with you he's been a disappointment at the plate, but he's more than made up for it with his glove. I can understand what you're saying comparing him to Jones, but I'm just saying it isn't necessarily Apples to Apples...unless of course Jones turns back into the defensive wiz he was before he looked like Rosie. Then he'd be extremely valuable w/o having to hit for big numbers (like Beltre).

[Brandon13]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

He's been consitent with his power numbers but only one season above a .270 average since he went to the M's.

Sorry if we have different thoughts of average, good, great, elite hitters are.

Here is how I break it down.

.300 - above - Elite hitter
.290 - .300 - Great hitter
.280 - .290 - Good hitter
.270 - .280 - Above Average hitter
.260 - below - Average hitter at best

I think you have to factor in power numbers and OBP as well to really define a person as an elite hitter, great hitter, etc. Because even though Juan Pierre is a .300 hitter for his career I would take Adam Dunn (.247) over him seven days a week.

[snepp]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

Beltre's career year was in 2004. Right after that he got a huge contract and bombed.

Bombed? Hardly.


(and hooray for batting average being the only measure that matters)

[Speedy]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

He's been consitent with his power numbers but only one season above a .270 average since he went to the M's.

Sorry if we have different thoughts of average, good, great, elite hitters are.

Here is how I break it down.

.300 - above - Elite hitter
.290 - .300 - Great hitter
.280 - .290 - Good hitter
.270 - .280 - Above Average hitter
.260 - below - Average hitter at best

So given this "model" what does that make Ryan Howard?

[theaub]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

Average hitter at best!

[AUTiger1]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

Bombed? Hardly.

(and hooray for batting average being the only measure that matters)

2004 - .334 BA, 48 HR, 121 RBI
2005 - .255 BA, 19 HR, 87 RBI
2006 - .268 BA, 25 HR, 89 RBI
2007 - .276 BA, 26 HR, 99 RBI
2008 - .266 BA, 25 HR, 77 RBI

So maybe bomb isn't the right word. But he hasn't come anywhere near repeating the numbers that got him the contract he got. He signed a 5 year 64 million dollar contract. Someone noted he was under paid. Hardly especially given the limited no-trade clause that was put in his deal.

No average isn't the only stat that counts.

So given this "model" what does that make Ryan Howard?

In my opinion you have elite overall hitters. Elite power hitters. Howard isn't an elite overall hitter but he's an elite power hitter. There's perfectly nothing wrong with that.

[Coug00]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

2004 - .334 BA, 48 HR, 121 RBI
2005 - .255 BA, 19 HR, 87 RBI
2006 - .268 BA, 25 HR, 89 RBI
2007 - .276 BA, 26 HR, 99 RBI
2008 - .266 BA, 25 HR, 77 RBI

So maybe bomb isn't the right word. But he hasn't come anywhere near repeating the numbers that got him the contract he got. He signed a 5 year 64 million dollar contract. Someone noted he was under paid. Hardly especially given the limited no-trade clause that was put in his deal.

No average isn't the only stat that counts.

The principle of your argument would be fine about Beltre if he were a DH. You can't forget he's also paid for his glove and he's one of the best in the business. It may not show up in the box score as a Run or RBI, but you can't discredit the amount of runs he saves with his glove or arm. Those saved runs are just as good as a R or RBI with the bat.

And he wasn't paid according to his 2004 season. Free Agents who hit over 1.000 OPS with a great glove don't make $12m/year. Double it and then were talking. Its a great deal for Seattle.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...-adrian-beltre

[wsu_gb23]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

[quote=AUTiger1;2039177941]2004 - .334 BA, 48 HR, 121 RBI
2005 - .255 BA, 19 HR, 87 RBI
2006 - .268 BA, 25 HR, 89 RBI
2007 - .276 BA, 26 HR, 99 RBI
2008 - .266 BA, 25 HR, 77 RBI

So maybe bomb isn't the right word. But he hasn't come anywhere near repeating the numbers that got him the contract he got. He signed a 5 year 64 million dollar contract. Someone noted he was under paid. Hardly especially given the limited no-trade clause that was put in his deal.

No average isn't the only stat that counts.



quote]

By looking at the stats, I have to wonder if Andruw was on the juice in 2004(who wasn't)...he goes from 48 hrs down to mid 20's....something doesn't add up...you don't all of a sudden forget how to hit the baseball...It is easy to say Andruw Jones is terribly over-paid...

[AUTiger1]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

[quote=wsu_gb23;2039178540]

2004 - .334 BA, 48 HR, 121 RBI
2005 - .255 BA, 19 HR, 87 RBI
2006 - .268 BA, 25 HR, 89 RBI
2007 - .276 BA, 26 HR, 99 RBI
2008 - .266 BA, 25 HR, 77 RBI

So maybe bomb isn't the right word. But he hasn't come anywhere near repeating the numbers that got him the contract he got. He signed a 5 year 64 million dollar contract. Someone noted he was under paid. Hardly especially given the limited no-trade clause that was put in his deal.

No average isn't the only stat that counts.



quote]

By looking at the stats, I have to wonder if Andruw was on the juice in 2004(who wasn't)...he goes from 48 hrs down to mid 20's....something doesn't add up...you don't all of a sudden forget how to hit the baseball...It is easy to say Andruw Jones is terribly over-paid...

Andruw didn't forget how to hit the ball. Andruw was able to take those pitches down and away and go out around the ball and pull them for homeruns. So he was still getting his homeruns. But then in 2006 his knee started hurting him. He started gaining weight. In 2007 he robbed a someone of a homerun against the Phils and injured his elbow. All of a sudden because of the knee and elbow injuries along with the extra weight he can't get to those same down and away balls so the homeruns stop coming. It's not hard to understand for someone like me who has watched him his whole career. I remember a game last year with the Dodgers against the Braves and they were trying pitches right on the black on the outside corner against him and he just couldn't reach them anymore.

[p_rushing]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

By looking at the stats, I have to wonder if Andruw was on the juice in 2004(who wasn't)...he goes from 48 hrs down to mid 20's....something doesn't add up...you don't all of a sudden forget how to hit the baseball...It is easy to say Andruw Jones is terribly over-paid...

I have thought the same thing. There hasn't been any evidence, but the numbers look like it.

[Speedy]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

I have thought the same thing. There hasn't been any evidence, but the numbers look like it.

I honestly believe players have fluke years (like Bill Mueller w/Boston in '03 when he won the batting title - always a .280 hitter but was .330avg) but unfortunately they're linked w/steriods if there's a season skewed above normal

[AUTiger1]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

I honestly believe players have fluke years (like Bill Mueller w/Boston in '03 when he won the batting title - always a .280 hitter but was .330avg) but unfortunately they're linked w/steriods if there's a season skewed above normal

Exactly. That year was a fluke for Mueller. The year Andruw had in 2000 was a fluke. The year Beltre had in 2004 was a fluke. Player's have fluke seasons that are good and bad. I'm praying that Francoeur had a fluke bad year last year.

[tarheelguy4736]

Re: Its Official...andruw jones is now a ranger!

Andruw is probably the top fielder in the game but as a hitter, well lets just say a freshman in college could get more hits in the majors than him. But his problem is that he wont change his stance or approach. He was being taught by a great hitting coach, Terry Pendelton, when he was with the Braves and time and time again he told him he needed to change his stance. That 2004 year I believe he adjusted his stance greatly and hence you see those outstanding numbers but then for some reason he went back to his old stance and Pendelton told him to change it but he said he liked the old one better. So if Andruw would just listen to people trying to help him out then he would be a better hitter.