Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

[wwharton]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

You're right which is why it's just a statement to get those who are against everyone from the steroid era to sympathize with Selig and MLB. I have no sympathy for these guys. In fact, and I know it's a huge stretch but this is a micro version of all those business people in Germany who knew what Hitler and the Nazis were all about but backed the movement because it boosted profits for their companies. They all did that knowing full well what would come down the pipe. The owners and Selig let all this happen under their watch hoping that no one would give a damn and then when it all comes out they're now trying to make themselves look innocent.

A bunch of frauds running MLB IMO.

I'm not going to jump on the train of comparing to Hitler or talking about politics, but there's no reason to limit it to that... we've got plenty of people in the great ole USA we can use as examples. The land of opportunity. All paths have holes that lead them to being evil and democracy is no different. The most successful get there by doing everything they can, within the law, to get ahead in their field. This means they toe the line of what is legal and what isn't (and many cross the line but are smart about it). Sounds like the MLB I've known my entire life to me. I don't hate Selig, the players or anyone else. It is what it is, and what it always has been. But Selig deserves a ton of blame for this mess if people are going to be hated.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

Selig has absolutely no idea what he's doing. All this steroid scandal happened under HIS watch. His guys swept stuff under the rug, his guys are to blame in this as well, he should majorily at fault...it's absolutely ridiculous.

Baseball is screwed under this clown's regime.

[SPTO]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

I'm not going to jump on the train of comparing to Hitler or talking about politics, but there's no reason to limit it to that... we've got plenty of people in the great ole USA we can use as examples. The land of opportunity. All paths have holes that lead them to being evil and democracy is no different. The most successful get there by doing everything they can, within the law, to get ahead in their field. This means they toe the line of what is legal and what isn't (and many cross the line but are smart about it). Sounds like the MLB I've known my entire life to me. I don't hate Selig, the players or anyone else. It is what it is, and what it always has been. But Selig deserves a ton of blame for this mess if people are going to be hated.

I wasn't aiming to take it down that road but I was using hyperbole to drive home my point. I don't hate Selig personally (I don't know the man) but everything that has happened under his watch has been pretty bad other then the fact that people are like lemmings and are going to games in record numbers.

[JBH3]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

Wanna know what is even more f'ed about the whole debacle...

Tom Cowlishaw mentioned this on Around the Horn...

If good'ol Bud does suspend A-Rod the team he was playing for at the time...5 YEARS AGO...doesn't get punished, its the Yankees.

How f'ed is that!

Not that I ever have sympathy for the Yankees, but I mean its ridiculous. There should be a statute of limitations or something...But to have to use that is even a debacle since it was supposed to be completely confidential anyways.

[Porschebenz2001]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

Wanna know what is even more f'ed about the whole debacle...

Tom Cowlishaw mentioned this on Around the Horn...

If good'ol Bud does suspend A-Rod the team he was playing for at the time...5 YEARS AGO...doesn't get punished, its the Yankees.

How f'ed is that!

Not that I ever have sympathy for the Yankees, but I mean its ridiculous. There should be a statute of limitations or something...But to have to use that is even a debacle since it was supposed to be completely confidential anyways.

He doesn't have the balls to suspend Arod. It would start a **** storm that he can't afford to get into.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

what a mess, seriously what a shameful mess baseball is in. The sad thing is that there is no easy way out of the rutt, and im guessing there are still alot of steroids stuff the next few years.

I say start over, take a year off, have a fantasy like draft, institute a salary cap and steroids test every week. I know that will never happen but to get back on track quickly it would take something like that.

They break attendance records every year, will get a lot of revenue from their television station, and most clubs make money. The idea that they should shut down is laughable.

[EWRMETS]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

He doesn't have the balls to suspend Arod. It would start a **** storm that he can't afford to get into.

It doesn't make any sense to suspend ARod. Reinstuting Hank Aaron as home run king would be a joke that nobody would take seriously. The Steroid Era is just as much an era of baseball as any other era which had its own set of unique elements.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

More proof that Selig has no idea what he is doing.

Just put an * next to Bonds name. It'll punish Bonds but not look like a complete douche move.

[Knight165]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

Then we'd rightfully have 104 lawsuits. There were no MLB rules against taking roids when the survey was given and the participants were promised anonymity, which would most definitely hold up in a court of law. ARod doesn't currently have a case because baseball can't and won't punish him because he didn't break any rules. His only chance would be defamation of character and that could get interesting if there are talks about keeping him out of the HOF. His problem is also there's no way of pinpointing who leaked the information, but MLB could still be tagged for not destroying it when they had a chance to. He's knee deep in the hole he's digging himself so the very small chance he has at a successful lawsuit is quickly fading though.

Selig deserves a ton of heat for the "roid era"... more than any player imo.

Not quite.
Rule was in place in 1991

Time now for the name-calling portion of our program, aka, I had the guts to read a few of the posts on this blog.

You mentioned that steroids were put on the banned list in 1991. There seem to be conflicting reports on when steroids were banned. Many news outlets say 2002. I think they are confusing testing with it actually being banned. Anyways, any chance you can provide a source showing that they were banned in 1991?

Commissioner Fay Vincent sent the clubs a memo in 1991 reminding them that players were forbidden from taking any illegal substance. He specifically mention steroids in the memo and encouraged the clubs to take a get-tough policy on players thought to be using steroids.

What could a team have done if it suspected a player of using steroids? Probably nothing.

Vincent simply wanted to be on the record as letting the clubs know that steroid use was against the rules and that they shouldn't be afraid to confront a player.

There was no testing for steroids until 2003 (after being part of the 2002 labor agreement).

Throw those 104 lawsuits out!

M.K.
Knight165

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

First, Selig can't suspend A-Rod...it would never hold up. He already knew this information, so his "I'm shocked and disappointed" jargin is useless. That's likely why he's discussing the idea of Aaron.

Secondly, while I despise Bonds, the idea isn't a good one. Each era is defined separately. The juiced up hitters were facing juiced up pitchers (in fact, there have been more pitchers caught than hitters). It's a different era. You have the dead ball era, the live ball era, etc. Rename it the "juiced up" era, have some info describing the scene in the HOF and move on.

None of it matters. People will always have opinions on who was the best____ (fill in any mark). As long as the Hall recognizes the era for what it was and people continue to pass it on, the truth (whatever your perception of it is) will be preserved.

I'm not saying I like how it went down, but there's a reality (sad as it may be) to the situation that asterix and record stripping won't absolve.

I say reveal the 104 and anyone else proven to use, hit reset, and move on. Unfortunately it happened, but there's nothing that can be done that would be "right."

Selig really needs to stop talking...lol. He's only making himself and the game look worse

[dodgerblue]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

The players union was and still is too powerful for many of these suggestions to work. The union didn't want to cooperate because there was too much money for players and contracts with ridiculous power numbers being put up.

The owners and Selig looked the other way while the money was pouring in over the home run chase and the excitement generated from the big numbers.

Now, much like wall street and the housing market, they are paying the price for their "sins"

Everyone needs to come clean, release all the names and chalk up the last 20 years to the "steroid era".

What I want to know is, what about HGH and the other stuff that isn't tested for. I find it hard to believe that the NFL doesn't have locker rooms full of illegal stuff. You're telling me that a sport that is as violent as football, requires strength, speed and recovery doesn't have a drug problem at least as bad?

[p_rushing]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

First they broke the US law and baseball's laws as the US laws are above baseball's laws. Just like if you test positive for any drugs, your company can fire you. In fact it doesn't even matter if MLB was handing the steroids out, they would still be breaking the rules. Anything that was illegal in the eyes of the US, broke baseball's laws.

They should release the 104 names, but only if they know what they failed the test for. McGuire has stated what he was taking, if you believe that was all, he wouldn't have broken the rules as it was legal. Its been stated that some on the list tested for stuff that was a PED, but it was legal. Pain medication/shots are PED when you are hurt, but they are legal. You can't just release the names without having proof of what they failed for. If they didn't, all 104 lawsuits could be won or settled out of court.

Selig is trying to save himself in the fans eyes. He allowed all this to happen and now he is trying to win the PR battle. Most of the fans want this, so he can do it and make himself look like the hero. I would like to see it done or remove anyone from the list that has any failed test and put them into their own page in the history books at the very least. You don't have to officially recognized them, but they will still be there because who knows how many players were juicing.

[Scottdau]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

Just leave the way it is. This will be bad for baseball. Because when a player is close to breaking it steroid questions will pop up again. If A Rod breaks it will he do the same thing.

[Scottdau]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

First, Selig can't suspend A-Rod...it would never hold up. He already knew this information, so his "I'm shocked and disappointed" jargin is useless. That's likely why he's discussing the idea of Aaron.

Secondly, while I despise Bonds, the idea isn't a good one. Each era is defined separately. The juiced up hitters were facing juiced up pitchers (in fact, there have been more pitchers caught than hitters). It's a different era. You have the dead ball era, the live ball era, etc. Rename it the "juiced up" era, have some info describing the scene in the HOF and move on.

None of it matters. People will always have opinions on who was the best____ (fill in any mark). As long as the Hall recognizes the era for what it was and people continue to pass it on, the truth (whatever your perception of it is) will be preserved.

I'm not saying I like how it went down, but there's a reality (sad as it may be) to the situation that asterix and record stripping won't absolve.

I say reveal the 104 and anyone else proven to use, hit reset, and move on. Unfortunately it happened, but there's nothing that can be done that would be "right."

Selig really needs to stop talking...lol. He's only making himself and the game look worse

What about the year they tighten the baseballs? I think Will Clark had 35 HR's that year.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Selig considering reinstating Aaron as Home Run King

First they broke the US law and baseball's laws as the US laws are above baseball's laws. Just like if you test positive for any drugs, your company can fire you. In fact it doesn't even matter if MLB was handing the steroids out, they would still be breaking the rules. Anything that was illegal in the eyes of the US, broke baseball's laws.

They should release the 104 names, but only if they know what they failed the test for. McGuire has stated what he was taking, if you believe that was all, he wouldn't have broken the rules as it was legal. Its been stated that some on the list tested for stuff that was a PED, but it was legal. Pain medication/shots are PED when you are hurt, but they are legal. You can't just release the names without having proof of what they failed for. If they didn't, all 104 lawsuits could be won or settled out of court.

Selig is trying to save himself in the fans eyes. He allowed all this to happen and now he is trying to win the PR battle. Most of the fans want this, so he can do it and make himself look like the hero. I would like to see it done or remove anyone from the list that has any failed test and put them into their own page in the history books at the very least. You don't have to officially recognized them, but they will still be there because who knows how many players were juicing.

Not true. It doesn't exactly work that way. As I said, he knew of the results at the time. He couldn't do much to A-Rod at this point in terms of suspension (if he could ever...depending on how formal the agreement was).

Now if the government wanted to come down, that's a separate issue. There isn't really much MLB can do (especially considering it already had knowledge of the issue and has done nothing). Remember too, this is a now 6 year old issue.

As far as the other names, it's sketchy. IF there was a formal or written agreement that the names would remain private, then you'd be right...yes, they couldn't release for fear of suit.

However, the more that comes out about this, the more it sounds like a backroom, shake under the table type of abreement. If the players gave consent with no protection, then they can be fair game (not saying it's right, just saying what can be gotten away with).

As far "You can't just release the names without having proof of what they failed for." that also applys under the whole consent/written agreement issue. If they can release some, they can release all. If they are specific as to what they failed for (as was the case with A-Rod) then they are covered in that sense.

Lastly, of course Selig is trying to win the PR battle. which is all the more reason he should shut up...lol. OR, come out and say "this is what happened, it happened under my watch, and as a whole we feel deeply ashamed.

What happened cannot be erased, but from this day forward we are commited to a clean game and will do everything in our power to ensure it." The end, stop talking

I still don't think removal of records solves anything. The ones who hold the biggest ones, while guilty in the court of public opinion, do not (yet) have enough evidence to proove enough to warrant it.

Take Bonds for example. Go ahead and list me all the HR's that shouldn't be counted. Or Clemens...tell me each strikeout that wasn't "real."

Striking records is a farce, as unfortunate as that may sound. As I said, it's an unfortunate era in the games history, but it's there...no amount of wishing will change that.

We also shouldn't forget that this game has had it's fair share of dirt for awhile. Nothing as open and messy as this, but there are a lot of question marks littered throughout the game.

Again, not speaking in ideals here, just sad truth