Who are the best players in the game?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

How in the world is Torii Hunter the fifth best outfielder in baseball and Manny Ramirez not even in your top 15?

Because I forgot that Manny is still playing.

And does it matter where Torii Hunter ranks on my list? I guess I shouldn't have numbered my picks then.

[Ewing]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Because I forgot that Manny is still playing.

And does it matter where Torii Hunter ranks on my list? I guess I shouldn't have numbered my picks then.

That's a good reason for Manny, I was gonna have to see if you really thought Hunter Pence was superior to him.

As for Hunter, he's just not that great. At one time he was the best defensive outfielder in the sport but really dropped off and he's never been anything but slightly above average when it comes to hitting.

Also, I just want to point this out to everyone, I'm not trying to start fights, I just like talking baseball with people. Varying opinions are fun and lead to good discussions. It'd be boring as hell if we all thought the same on here.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Mauer is one of the best players in baseball hands down, and by far one of the most valuable. It's not just what he does with the bat, it's his defensive skills as well. Look at the way he turned that Minnesota pitching staff around into something legit last season, when nobody gave them a chance of being anything. Then on the offensive side of things, he makes Moreneau put up superstar numbers. People actually kind of underrate the guy's importance, not overrate him. If it weren't for him, the Twins would be a really awful team. He might be the single most important player in the MLB.

Starting Pitchers
1. Johan Santana NYM
2. Jake Peavy SD
3. C.C. Sabathia NYY
4. Brandon Webb AZ
5. Tim Lincecum SF
6. Cole Hamels PHI
7. Roy Oswalt HOU
8. Roy Halladay TOR
9. Scott Kazmir TB
10. Cliff Lee CLE

How is Lincecum behind those 4 when he had a better season than all of them last year, and in some of their caes, a WAY better season than them. Right now, I don't think there's a better pitcher in baseball than Lincecum.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

How is Lincecum behind those 4 when he had a better season than all of them last year, and in some of their caes, a WAY better season than them. Right now, I don't think there's a better pitcher in baseball than Lincecum.

Lincecum may have had a better season, but in my opinion that doesn't make him automatically better than Johan Santana, Jake Peavy, C.C. Sabathia, and Brandon Webb, aces who have been dominating for more than one season?

Last season:
Lincecum - 2.62 ERA, 265 K's, 1.172 WHIP
Webb - 3.30 ERA, 183 K's, 1.196 WHIP
Santana - 2.53 ERA, 206 K's, 1.148 WHIP
Peavy - 2.85 ERA, 166 K's, 1.180 WHIP
Sabathia - 2.70 ERA, 251 K's, 1.115 WHIP

Tell me where Lincecum had a WAY better season based on the 2008 stats, because I don't see it. Is it wins? Webb led with 22, complete games? Sabathia with 10, Walks allowed? Sabathia with 59, Innings Pitched? Sabathia with 253. Lincecum only has a slight edge on ERA+ and strikeouts.

And just so you know, when you start comparing aces, the line separating them becomes very thin and hard to tell who's really better.

[CMH]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

I'm a homer, but I would take Russell Martin over Joe Mauer. But that's just me.

I won't argue this. I'd be happy with either one as my catcher.

[CMH]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Having watch CC for many seasons, he's better than all of those, other than Santana and probably on the same level as Halladay.

Guess we just won't agree.

[CMH]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Maybe if the question was the best "catcher" in the game. Mauer's a very good catcher but he's HARDLY among the best players. That question should erase position from the equation and he doesn't stack up when you do that. And the more detailed question by the OP which was about players worth watching, he also doesn't stack up. He'd be a great catcher if he hit .216 but instead he's Wade Boggs with catching skills. Just doesn't fit on the list.

Winning two batting titles in three years doesn't make you one of the better players in the game?

Why is a guy who hits 48 homeruns and drives in 140 a "best" player despite doing everything else so poorly, but a guy that hits .320, posts a .400 OBP, and plays stellar defense, not?

The fact that he hits that well while playing catcher is just more brownie points for him. And I don't understand how calling him Wade Boggs with catching skills is supposed to support your argument. Wade Boggs is one of the best players of all-time.

Maybe it's just me, but watching a guy hit the ball so purely and get on base 40% of the time he comes up to bat is someone worth watching on a daily basis. The guy is a great baseball player and you're putting him down because he doesn't hit 20 more homeruns a year.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Lincecum may have had a better season, but in my opinion that doesn't make him automatically better than Johan Santana, Jake Peavy, C.C. Sabathia, and Brandon Webb, aces who have been dominating for more than one season?

Last season:
Lincecum - 2.62 ERA, 265 K's, 1.172 WHIP
Webb - 3.30 ERA, 183 K's, 1.196 WHIP
Santana - 2.53 ERA, 206 K's, 1.148 WHIP
Peavy - 2.85 ERA, 166 K's, 1.180 WHIP
Sabathia - 2.70 ERA, 251 K's, 1.115 WHIP

Tell me where Lincecum had a WAY better season based on the 2008 stats, because I don't see it. Is it wins? Webb led with 22, complete games? Sabathia with 10, Walks allowed? Sabathia with 59, Innings Pitched? Sabathia with 253. Lincecum only has a slight edge on ERA+ and strikeouts.

And just so you know, when you start comparing aces, the line separating them becomes very thin and hard to tell who's really better.

I was just going off of memory, and I for some reason thought a number of them had lesser stats than they did. Either way, Lincecum was the best in the game last season.

Why is a guy who hits 48 homeruns and drives in 140 a "best" player despite doing everything else so poorly, but a guy that hits .320, posts a .400 OBP, and plays stellar defense, not?

The fact that he hits that well while playing catcher is just more brownie points for him. And I don't understand how calling him Wade Boggs with catching skills is supposed to support your argument. Wade Boggs is one of the best players of all-time.

Maybe it's just me, but watching a guy hit the ball so purely and get on base 40% of the time he comes up to bat is someone worth watching on a daily basis. The guy is a great baseball player and you're putting him down because he doesn't hit 20 more homeruns a year.

Don't just look at his OBP and average, he also knocks in a lot of runs, and is also one of the most clutch hitters in the game. Check out his RISP, or any variation of it like RISP/w two outs, they're all well above .300. He batted .400/w bases loaded. .420 late inning pressure/w runners on. He's the most impressive clutch performer in baseball along with Albert.

[Scottdau]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Timmy>the rest of MLB.

[wwharton]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Joe Mauer is the best catcher in baseball, that makes him one of the best players in the game. He doesn't have much power but he gets hits for contact better than just about anyone and gets on-base with the best of them, not to mention his great fielding and working pitchers better than almost every catcher in baseball at the age of 25.

I don't think we disagree on Mauer's value. I just disagree on what makes the best "player" in the game.

Winning two batting titles in three years doesn't make you one of the better players in the game?

Why is a guy who hits 48 homeruns and drives in 140 a "best" player despite doing everything else so poorly, but a guy that hits .320, posts a .400 OBP, and plays stellar defense, not?

The fact that he hits that well while playing catcher is just more brownie points for him. And I don't understand how calling him Wade Boggs with catching skills is supposed to support your argument. Wade Boggs is one of the best players of all-time.

Maybe it's just me, but watching a guy hit the ball so purely and get on base 40% of the time he comes up to bat is someone worth watching on a daily basis. The guy is a great baseball player and you're putting him down because he doesn't hit 20 more homeruns a year.

I'm really not putting him down as much as you seem to think. I love Wade Boggs. If people are making relatively lengthy lists, Mauer's name belongs there. If you're listing 4 or 5 players across all positions, I don't agree he should be in that discussion. That's all I'm saying.

[CMH]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

I'm really not putting him down as much as you seem to think. I love Wade Boggs. If people are making relatively lengthy lists, Mauer's name belongs there. If you're listing 4 or 5 players across all positions, I don't agree he should be in that discussion. That's all I'm saying.

Ah, got you. I can agree with that.

[P2K]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Everybody knows when the name "Ryan Howard" appears, the OSBRSA clan immediately start stabbing themselves in the eyes with sharpened No.2 pencils with hellish ferver.

And did dkgojackets get banned a while ago and came back as Ewing? I know that smart-assian wit anywhere. I've noticed he's been on hiatus. If that is indeed Dkgo, he needs to take his rightful place as Arthur to his knights of the baseball table as the head of the OSBRSA.

BTW...**** Ryan Howard! It's all about Jason Donald!!!

[Vince]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Everybody knows when the name "Ryan Howard" appears, the OSBRSA clan immediately start stabbing themselves in the eyes with sharpened No.2 pencils with hellish ferver.

And did dkgojackets get banned a while ago and came back as Ewing? I know that smart-assian wit anywhere. I've noticed he's been on hiatus. If that is indeed Dkgo, he needs to take his rightful place as Arthur to his knights of the baseball table as the head of the OSBRSA.

BTW...**** Ryan Howard! It's all about Jason Donald!!!

It's freaking annoying...I can bet that people now will just put out the Worp crap just to seem "cool" even if they don't know what it is...

Ryan Howard isn't better than Pujols...I can live with people saying that

Ryan Howard isn't one of the most dangerous players in the game? Gimme a break.

[Ewing]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Everybody knows when the name "Ryan Howard" appears, the OSBRSA clan immediately start stabbing themselves in the eyes with sharpened No.2 pencils with hellish ferver.

And did dkgojackets get banned a while ago and came back as Ewing? I know that smart-assian wit anywhere. I've noticed he's been on hiatus. If that is indeed Dkgo, he needs to take his rightful place as Arthur to his knights of the baseball table as the head of the OSBRSA.

BTW...**** Ryan Howard! It's all about Jason Donald!!!

I think the guy is an overrated player by the media and general public, when you break it down, there are quite a few better players. Including a guy on his own team.

First of all, I don't know who dkgojackets is, I signed up to get more info on MLB 09: The Show and decided to stick around after I saw more boards. On top of that, I'm not sure how you confuse using advanced statistics with being Asian, but hey, whatever makes you sleep better at night.

It's freaking annoying...I can bet that people now will just put out the Worp crap just to seem "cool" even if they don't know what it is...

Ryan Howard isn't better than Pujols...I can live with people saying that

Ryan Howard isn't one of the most dangerous players in the game? Gimme a break.

Not once in this thread did myself or anyone else mention "worp", as that's not a stat. VORP and WARP are, but we didn't mention those either.

I agree, Ryan Howard is one of the most dangerous players in the game. If he's in your lineup against lefties, he's probably going to cost your team.

In all seriousness, it depends on how you define dangerous.

[CMH]

Re: Who are the best players in the game?

Ryan Howard isn't one of the most dangerous players in the game? Gimme a break.

There isn't one guy who has acknowledged an orgasmic love for advanced stats that has said Ryan Howard is not a dangerous bat in the lineup.

Any player that can change a game with one swing is dangerous. A guy that hits 40+ of them a year is more dangerous.

But, dangerous does not make you a great player. It just makes you dangerous. You could have a pitcher that throws 100 and strikes out a ton of hitters. But, if he's also walking a ton of hitters and giving up a bunch of hits, what good is his dangerous fastball?

That's where we stand with Howard. Sure, he can hit a bunch of bombs, but all we're saying is that the media and fans overrate his homerun ability to the point that they ignore his deficiencies which include striking out a bunch of times, not taking as many walks as he should, not hitting for .300 or close to league average, and playing terrible defense at 1B. He is, again, a one-tool player. A damn fine one-tool player, but a one-tool player nonetheless.

There are two players on his team that are better than him. I could argue all day that they are light years better, but I won't because that would go no where. I will say they are better. And instead, they get pushed to the side because they don't hit 40+ homeruns or change the game with one swing. No, all they do is change the game everytime they bat up. It's never enough because fans and the media don't pay attention to the other things that affect the final score. If it's not 400 feet, it's just another at-bat.


Oh, and my only real hope through all of this is for every Ryan Howard fan to acknowledge that Adam Dunn is at the very least his equal (really, Dunn is a better player, but again, I'm smart enough to know that going there would just be an endless argument). Until that happens, I won't stop running in here screaming it.