better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

[Travis40]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

yea true. Kinsler hasnt played in the big games that Pedroia has so Pedroia has that advantage. When the stakes are high, the production means more obviously.

but I wonder if Boston would trade mr MVP for Kinsler. RedSox fans, what would you think of that trade? As a Rangers fan, I know that I wouldnt want to see Kinsler traded for Pedroia.

Kinsler is probably the best player on the Rangers, behind Hamilton. I don't care if Pedroia was an MVP or not, I don't want to see anyone but Kinsler on second base anytime soon. I feel that Kinsler is the better hitter, and better fielder. And I can't stand people knocking Kinsler because he lead the league in errors, those people obviously don't follow the Rangers (not many people do ). Pedroia is a great player, but I think Kinsler is the better player.

[Coug00]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

I feel that Kinsler is the better hitter, and better fielder. And I can't stand people knocking Kinsler because he lead the league in errors, those people obviously don't follow the Rangers (not many people do ).

I'm curious here, since you believe people have to watch a player every day and aren't allowed to use any form of statistical measurement to rate a player's defense, did you watch Pedroia every day? If not, by your standards, I don't know how you can say Kinsler is the better fielder than Pedroia.

[Ewing]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

I'm curious here, since you believe people have to watch a player every day and aren't allowed to use any form of statistical measurement to rate a player's defense, did you watch Pedroia every day? If not, by your standards, I don't know how you can say Kinsler is the better fielder than Pedroia.

I'm with you. Kinsler was awful in the field last year with a -4.6 UZR(5.3 UZR/150) and a -15 in +/-. However, and this is interesting, in 2007 he posted a horrible -12.8 UZR(-13.5 UZR/150) yet, put up a respectable +7 in +/-. According to UZR he sucks but BIS Video Scouts think he was pretty good and fell off last year. Which one is real?

[Travis40]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

I'm curious here, since you believe people have to watch a player every day and aren't allowed to use any form of statistical measurement to rate a player's defense, did you watch Pedroia every day? If not, by your standards, I don't know how you can say Kinsler is the better fielder than Pedroia.

I'm also a Red Sox fan, and I have MLB Extra Innings ....so I usually watch the Sox more than the Rangers. I'm still sticking with my previous statement, Kinsler is a better fielder than Pedroia.

[Coug00]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

I'm with you. Kinsler was awful in the field last year with a -4.6 UZR(5.3 UZR/150) and a -15 in +/-. However, and this is interesting, in 2007 he posted a horrible -12.8 UZR(-13.5 UZR/150) yet, put up a respectable +7 in +/-. According to UZR he sucks but BIS Video Scouts think he was pretty good and fell off last year. Which one is real?

I've come to really dislike +/-, so I'll go with UZR. I'm hoping the addition of Hit F/x this year will lead to a Fielding F/x system or something like that so we can finally track all ball and player movement from pitch to end of play. We could essentially end all of these discussions about who is the better fielder and look at the data.

[Ewing]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

I've come to really dislike +/-, so I'll go with UZR. I'm hoping the addition of Hit F/x this year will lead to a Fielding F/x system or something like that so we can finally track all ball and player movement from pitch to end of play. We could essentially end all of these discussions about who is the better fielder and look at the data.

What in the name of Bill James is Hit F/x?

[jake44np]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

The OP is just funny as hell!
He can not just take Ian's #'s and add 21% to them, you dont know for sure he would have kept up his current pace of stats through the rest of the year. Many players wear out as the season goes on, its hard telling what kind of #'s Ian would have put up if he would have finished the year.
Also Dustin plays on a much bigger stage then Ian!
Dustin's games actually count, he has alot more pressure on him to produce.
Ian plays for a horrible team that has no pressure on them to win like Boston does.
This is a no brainer and I am neither a Rangers or Red Sox fan but Dustin is the better player!

[Coug00]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

What in the name of Bill James is Hit F/x?

Like MLB's Pitch F/x system, but instead of tracking each pitch, the computers/cameras are going to track the exact trajectory & velocity of every single hit ball.

[Ewing]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

Also Dustin plays on a much bigger stage then Ian!
Dustin's games actually count, he has alot more pressure on him to produce.
Ian plays for a horrible team that has no pressure on them to win like Boston does.

Robinson Cano is better than Ian Kinsler and Derek Jeter is better than Hanley Ramirez with that kind of flawless logic and reasoning.

[jake44np]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

Robinson Cano is better than Ian Kinsler and Derek Jeter is better than Hanley Ramirez with that kind of flawless logic and reasoning.

You totally missed my point.
I was stating that if guys have really similiar stats the guy who plays on a bigger stage (playoff hunt) is more impressive to me. Its alot easier to put up big stats when there is no pressure on you.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

You totally missed my point.
I was stating that if guys have really similiar stats the guy who plays on a bigger stage (playoff hunt) is more impressive to me. Its alot easier to put up big stats when there is no pressure on you.

Shining example: Jhonny Peralta.

[JBH3]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

There really doesn't need to be a thread on this.

Chase Utley is the best 2B since the position was invented. :wink:

[jake44np]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

There really doesn't need to be a thread on this.

Chase Utley is the best 2B since the position was invented. :wink:

Maybe the best 2B in the game today.

I would take Brandon Phillips over Kinsler and Pedroia!
He put up almost idenical #'s as Ian and only had 40 more ABS then him.
I know his average is lower then Ian's but his power #'s are better and neither Ian or Dustin can hold his you know what when it comes to defense. THERE IS NO BETTER DEFENSIVE 2B IN BASEBALL.
After looking at the #'s the OP may in fact be right Pedroia's #'s arent really that impressive when you look at them.

[Ewing]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

You totally missed my point.
I was stating that if guys have really similiar stats the guy who plays on a bigger stage (playoff hunt) is more impressive to me. Its alot easier to put up big stats when there is no pressure on you.

That makes absolutely no sense. The pressure is on for every MLB player in every game. They have jobs to maintain. Just because Player A is on a playoff contender does not make him a better player than Player B who is on a third place team. It's that type of logic that leads to guys like Miguel Tejada winning MVP.

I would take Brandon Phillips over Kinsler and Pedroia!

Ian Kinsler, Texas Rangers - .311 EqA, .375 OBP, .517 SLG, 134 OPS+, 106 RC, 4.5 VW

Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox - .298 EqA, .376 OBP, .493 SLG, 122 OPS+, 107 RC, 6.6 VW

Brandon Phillips, Cincinnati Reds - .256 EqA, .312 OBP, .442 SLG, 92 OPS+, 74 RC, 3.0 VW

No.

Ian or Dustin can hold his you know what when it comes to defense.

UZR 2008

Brandon Phillips: 11.4
Dustin Pedroia: 10.3
Ian Kinsler: -4.6

You're right about Kinsler but Pedroia is very close to him.

THERE IS NO BETTER DEFENSIVE 2B IN BASEBALL

UZR 2008

Chase Utley: 19.2
Mark Ellis: 17.0

There's two guys who were better.

[jake44np]

Re: better player, Ian Kinsler or Dustin Pedroia?

You just ignored my last post, I agreed with you Ian is just as good if not better then Dustin. Quit arguing with me when I agree with you!!!! lol
As for defense you are totally wrong, Brandon is just plain better then Ian or Dustin!!! PERIOD!
I dont need to see any range ave. or any #'s at all to know who the better defensive player is. I all I need to do is watch Brandon play everyday! He gets to balls that no one else comes close to. The guy is a defensive freak!!!! Its pretty common knowledge among baseball people that Brandon is the best defensive 2B in the game today. My best friend is a scout for the DBacks and we just had this conversation about a month ago, its truly amazing how good he is.