Joe Torre is an....

[ryanm1058123]

***. And no this has nothing to do with his book.

Over the past five seasons, Proctor made 231 total appearances for Torre's teams with the Yankees and Dodgers. The 83 outings Proctor made for the 2006 Yankees rank second in franchise history.

"He wasn't afraid of anything," Torre said. "Very aggressive. Ability aside, the fact he was a good teammate was very important."

However, Torre said Proctor did himself no favors with his willingness to pitch when less than 100 percent.

"There's playing hurt, and then there's playing stupid," Torre said. "It doesn't have anything to do with someone's intelligence. If you can endure pain and still are able to do what you do, that's one thing."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-marlins-proctor-notebook-s05sbmay17,0,3908158.story

Yeah Joe.. its really his fault that you went to him EVERY game and pitched him for multiple innings. Way to throw the guy under the bus. It's really pathetic that the true Joe Torre is coming out. Ruined a guys career.

[Marino]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

***. And no this has nothing to do with his book.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-marlins-proctor-notebook-s05sbmay17,0,3908158.story

Yeah Joe.. its really his fault that you went to him EVERY game and pitched him for multiple innings. Way to throw the guy under the bus. It's really pathetic that the true Joe Torre is coming out. Ruined a guys career.

So Proctor never told him about an injury. If the guy is available then Torre will use him, it is Proctor's fault for not letting anyone know that maybe he has arm issues.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Sorry 102 innings in one year for a reliever is not a normal workload. its kinda crazy how bad he was overused in his yankee days. its gotta be the managers disgression here. no matter how much a guy is available, you have to worry about guys careers as well.

[CMH]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Torre did overuse him, but if Proctor is hurt then he has to let the manager know.

Torre only kept going to him because Proctor never told him that he couldn't.

[Misfit]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

There's plenty of blame to go around. Managers always check in with their relievers before every game to find out if they can go that day, and for how many innings/hitters. If Proctor wasn't honest, that's his fault. However, managers need to be held accountable too especially with young guys. They need to be aware that a kid like Proctor may not be entirely truthful because he wants to make himself available to the club and avoid being sent down to Triple A. Also, the front office needs to monitor use for each pitcher and step in if a young guy appears to be getting overworked. I don't think Torre is a jerk for over-using Proctor as his bottom line (especially in New York) is going to be wins and losses and he needs to win every game he can or risk losing his job. He should step up though and acknowledge that he could have managed Proctor's workload better than he did.

[jake44np]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

This post should end JOE TORRE IS A HELL OF A MANAGER!
Have you not seen what he is doing with the Dodgers this year.
I am pretty sure managers are paid to win games, am I wrong??

[roadman]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Oh oh, Dusty Baker , Jr.

[CMH]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

This post should end...HELL OF A MANAGER!

But that would be poor grammar and I don't think even Joe Torre could escape the clutches of that nazi.

[Blzer]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

But that would be poor grammar and I don't think even Joe Torre could escape the clutches of that nazi.

Actually, some old English speaking folk will argue that this is actually grammatically correct to use the article "an" in front of a word that begins with "h," regardless of the pronunciation of the actual consonant.

... but that doesn't have anything to do with Joe Torre.

[DTX3]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

***. And no this has nothing to do with his book.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-marlins-proctor-notebook-s05sbmay17,0,3908158.story

Yeah Joe.. its really his fault that you went to him EVERY game and pitched him for multiple innings. Way to throw the guy under the bus. It's really pathetic that the true Joe Torre is coming out. Ruined a guys career.

I find it funny that his true colors are coming out now that he isn't a Yankee. SMH. See you next year in New York. Dodgers going to rape the Yanks.

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Ask anybody in this forum, when Joe Torre was on the Yankees, he did not escape criticism. I was the one who called for his firing.

It's just disgusting what he did to this kid. At least admit it. Everybody knows its true. You ruined the kids career.

[DTX3]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Ask anybody in this forum, when Joe Torre was on the Yankees, he did not escape criticism. I was the one who called for his firing.

It's just disgusting what he did to this kid. At least admit it. Everybody knows its true. You ruined the kids career.

Torre did overuse him, but if Proctor is hurt then he has to let the manager know.

Torre only kept going to him because Proctor never told him that he couldn't.

If this is true, then the kid ruined his own career. After all, the man can speak, right?

[rsox]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

In a 3 three year stretch from 2004-2006 the Pittsburgh Pirates ran Salomon Torres to the mound for 280 innings-all out of the bullpen. In those 3 years he never pitched less than 92 innings and his arm didn't fall off.

Under Joe Torre Mariano Rivera as a closer threw at least 80 innings (including post-season) 7 times. Reached 90+ innings 4 times including a career high 122 innings (all as a reliever) in 1996, and his arm didn't fall off.

As a relief pitcher, and a decent one which Proctor has been, you have to expect that you will get a heavy work load. It is, after all, what the team is paying you for. It is also unfortunately the price you pay for being good at your job (trust me i know).
Granted that in Torre's last few seasons in New York he used his bullpen a lot. If Proctor couldn't go it's his responsibility to speak on his own behalf, no one else is going to do it for him. Placing all of the blame on Torre is unfair. He may deserve some, but so does Proctor.

[Sandman42]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

Torre got plenty of criticism in New York for his bullpen management. Just look at his overuse of guys like Proctor, Tanyon Sturtze, Steve Karsay, and Paul Quantrill. Quantrill had a good first year for the team, but after being overused he wsn't the same after that. Karsay threw heavy workloads for a couple years and then ended up getting injured and never came back from injury.

[rsox]

Re: Joe Torre is an....

To be fair Karsay battled injuries his entire career, not just with the Yankees. And Quantrill was getting heavy work loads in Toronto and Los Angeles, not just the Yankees. Sturtze throwing 78 innings in relief in 2005 could not have been any worse than throwing 224 innings as a starter in an 18 loss 2002 campaign with the Devil Rays.

Torre definitely over uses his bullpen at times but he did not ruin any of these guys.