Changes to the game

[thecomic]

Re: Changes to the game

hey, there's no denying that George is always looking for an advantage, or a way to cheat.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Changes to the game

Football cap is great... everyone has the same trials and tribulations in keeping a competitive team on the field.

And a cap is definitely needed in baseball, but so is the revenue sharing and also a salary "floor" as well... otherwise, some owners will just spend as little as they can even though all the fans will know they could spend more. What do the owners care? They are just "maximizing profits".

[MSRoble33]

Re: Changes to the game

Football cap is great... everyone has the same trials and tribulations in keeping a competitive team on the field.

And a cap is definitely needed in baseball, but so is the revenue sharing and also a salary "floor" as well... otherwise, some owners will just spend as little as they can even though all the fans will know they could spend more. What do the owners care? They are just "maximizing profits".

[SPTO]

Re: Changes to the game

Pitt this is true. I had heard that MLB was thinking of hooking up with DirecTV in a similar way that the NFL does except that DirecTV would serve the same purpose as the NFL tv contract does.

Basically what I heard MLB wanted to do was sell all the national rights to DirecTV and have the national revenues of MLB EXTRA INNINGS go to them. The commercial revenue would go to the local team.

So for instance someone watching a Yankees/Red Sox game from say Minnesota well the revenues generated from him watching the game would go to MLB and the local revenue from commericals would go to his local team (Twins) or something very similar to that. It was a bit of a convoluted idea and i believe it's been shot down.

MLB also tried an over the air version of this idea with the Baseball network between ABC and NBC which failed miserably.

[SPTO]

Re: Changes to the game

Pitt this is true. I had heard that MLB was thinking of hooking up with DirecTV in a similar way that the NFL does except that DirecTV would serve the same purpose as the NFL tv contract does.

Basically what I heard MLB wanted to do was sell all the national rights to DirecTV and have the national revenues of MLB EXTRA INNINGS go to them. The commercial revenue would go to the local team.

So for instance someone watching a Yankees/Red Sox game from say Minnesota well the revenues generated from him watching the game would go to MLB and the local revenue from commericals would go to his local team (Twins) or something very similar to that. It was a bit of a convoluted idea and i believe it's been shot down.

MLB also tried an over the air version of this idea with the Baseball network between ABC and NBC which failed miserably.

[thecomic]

Re: Changes to the game

I don't think money prevents parody at all in baseball. Look at the A's they've been good far more years than they've been bad, but nobody ever goes to their games, they won 3 championships in the early '70's and nobody went, same thing today. If fans took their butts to the game they could resign Tejada and Giambi and not trade McGuire. I've lived in NoCal almost my whole life and never met a true die hard A's fan. They're in the same market as the Giants and the Gmen have it cornered and always will.
I think contraction of these teams that nobody is going to watch will solve some problems, at least move them to cities that will support them.
The A's AAA team in Sacramento outdraws the A's regularily, that's obscene!
Portland would have great attendance too.

On the other hand, the Yankees have the most money but they also know how to use it. When was the last time the Yanks signed a free agent that busted? They have the best scouting, everything...
If the Rays had George's money, I'm not sure they'd be much better, they traded Randy Winn for Lou Pinella for the love of Allah.
Look at the money the Orioles and Dodgers have spent in recent years, for what, second, third, and fourth place finishes.
The Giants are right behind the Braves and Yankees for wins since '90 and their payroll is never above the middle of the pack.
Then there's the Dbacks, who won the series the same year they were bankrupt from mismanaging money. There park was full, they won, how did they go bankrupt?
What about the Cubs, they got some money. WG freakin' N!!!, Sold out everyday, cubs jerseys sellin' like shania twain blow up dolls, oh, hell ya the cubs got money! What have they won? Sh$% Sosa doesn't even win a homerun title for all the money the cubs got.
I think it comes down to one thing, the front office.

[thecomic]

Re: Changes to the game

I don't think money prevents parody at all in baseball. Look at the A's they've been good far more years than they've been bad, but nobody ever goes to their games, they won 3 championships in the early '70's and nobody went, same thing today. If fans took their butts to the game they could resign Tejada and Giambi and not trade McGuire. I've lived in NoCal almost my whole life and never met a true die hard A's fan. They're in the same market as the Giants and the Gmen have it cornered and always will.
I think contraction of these teams that nobody is going to watch will solve some problems, at least move them to cities that will support them.
The A's AAA team in Sacramento outdraws the A's regularily, that's obscene!
Portland would have great attendance too.

On the other hand, the Yankees have the most money but they also know how to use it. When was the last time the Yanks signed a free agent that busted? They have the best scouting, everything...
If the Rays had George's money, I'm not sure they'd be much better, they traded Randy Winn for Lou Pinella for the love of Allah.
Look at the money the Orioles and Dodgers have spent in recent years, for what, second, third, and fourth place finishes.
The Giants are right behind the Braves and Yankees for wins since '90 and their payroll is never above the middle of the pack.
Then there's the Dbacks, who won the series the same year they were bankrupt from mismanaging money. There park was full, they won, how did they go bankrupt?
What about the Cubs, they got some money. WG freakin' N!!!, Sold out everyday, cubs jerseys sellin' like shania twain blow up dolls, oh, hell ya the cubs got money! What have they won? Sh$% Sosa doesn't even win a homerun title for all the money the cubs got.
I think it comes down to one thing, the front office.

[SPTO]

Re: Changes to the game

TheComic you do realize that baseball attendence goes in cycles. If you had said this let's say 3-4 yrs ago you'd be contracting the Twins, Royals, Angels, and the Brewers. (tho their attendence is starting to slip again)

3 of the 4 teams have had recent success that has fueled the attendence surge. There was some rumblings of contraction (tho not nearly as loud as the last couple yrs) in the late 80s. The Indians, Braves, and Mariners were all prime candidates and look at those franchises now. They're among baseball elite. (well the Indians will be back in Baseball's elite in a couple yrs)

The currently moribound Oakland A's attendence wise used to be quite a robust team in that department until Al Davis decided to come back to Oakland and screwed up the stadium which turned off a lot of A's fans. So to say that no one has ever gone to A's games even when they were successful in the 70s and then later in the 80s is a bit of a fallacy.

The same can be said about the Expos. They were wildly popular and had respectable attendence numbers throughout the 80s but when the '94 strike occurred which hampered ownership from getting revenue from the potential playoff appearance in order to build a new stadium. Since then it's been all downhill.

So what i'm saying is that baseball attendence runs in cycles. I will say that the Montreal market is basically dead right now as well as both Florida teams. However, Montreal would be a success if MLB came back in 10 yrs like with what happened with the CFL's Alluettes. The Florida markets however were botched from the beginning and there's no hope for them.

[SPTO]

Re: Changes to the game

TheComic you do realize that baseball attendence goes in cycles. If you had said this let's say 3-4 yrs ago you'd be contracting the Twins, Royals, Angels, and the Brewers. (tho their attendence is starting to slip again)

3 of the 4 teams have had recent success that has fueled the attendence surge. There was some rumblings of contraction (tho not nearly as loud as the last couple yrs) in the late 80s. The Indians, Braves, and Mariners were all prime candidates and look at those franchises now. They're among baseball elite. (well the Indians will be back in Baseball's elite in a couple yrs)

The currently moribound Oakland A's attendence wise used to be quite a robust team in that department until Al Davis decided to come back to Oakland and screwed up the stadium which turned off a lot of A's fans. So to say that no one has ever gone to A's games even when they were successful in the 70s and then later in the 80s is a bit of a fallacy.

The same can be said about the Expos. They were wildly popular and had respectable attendence numbers throughout the 80s but when the '94 strike occurred which hampered ownership from getting revenue from the potential playoff appearance in order to build a new stadium. Since then it's been all downhill.

So what i'm saying is that baseball attendence runs in cycles. I will say that the Montreal market is basically dead right now as well as both Florida teams. However, Montreal would be a success if MLB came back in 10 yrs like with what happened with the CFL's Alluettes. The Florida markets however were botched from the beginning and there's no hope for them.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Changes to the game

I'll agree that front office is crucial.... but then again "free agent signings" really don't take much mental prowess to select either..

I mean, to sign Jason Giambi as a free agent is really a no-brainer, to sign all the foreign imports Matsui and Contreras without any other team getting a chance is not really a product of one front office scouting better than another. It's a product of one front office having more to use to acquire the players that are scouted than another...

Yeah, Soriano, Jeter, Rivera, Bernie... all products of an excellent farm system no doubt, but as far as making good selections in picking free agents to grab... they haven't done anything anyone else with virtually bottmless wallets wouldn't have done.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Changes to the game

I'll agree that front office is crucial.... but then again "free agent signings" really don't take much mental prowess to select either..

I mean, to sign Jason Giambi as a free agent is really a no-brainer, to sign all the foreign imports Matsui and Contreras without any other team getting a chance is not really a product of one front office scouting better than another. It's a product of one front office having more to use to acquire the players that are scouted than another...

Yeah, Soriano, Jeter, Rivera, Bernie... all products of an excellent farm system no doubt, but as far as making good selections in picking free agents to grab... they haven't done anything anyone else with virtually bottmless wallets wouldn't have done.

[thecomic]

Re: Changes to the game

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
TheComic you do realize that baseball attendence goes in cycles. If you had said this let's say 3-4 yrs ago you'd be contracting the Twins, Royals, Angels, and the Brewers. (tho their attendence is starting to slip again)

3 of the 4 teams have had recent success that has fueled the attendence surge. There was some rumblings of contraction (tho not nearly as loud as the last couple yrs) in the late 80s. The Indians, Braves, and Mariners were all prime candidates and look at those franchises now. They're among baseball elite. (well the Indians will be back in Baseball's elite in a couple yrs)

The currently moribound Oakland A's attendence wise used to be quite a robust team in that department until Al Davis decided to come back to Oakland and screwed up the stadium which turned off a lot of A's fans. So to say that no one has ever gone to A's games even when they were successful in the 70s and then later in the 80s is a bit of a fallacy.

The same can be said about the Expos. They were wildly popular and had respectable attendence numbers throughout the 80s but when the '94 strike occurred which hampered ownership from getting revenue from the potential playoff appearance in order to build a new stadium. Since then it's been all downhill.

So what i'm saying is that baseball attendence runs in cycles. I will say that the Montreal market is basically dead right now as well as both Florida teams. However, Montreal would be a success if MLB came back in 10 yrs like with what happened with the CFL's Alluettes. The Florida markets however were botched from the beginning and there's no hope for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I hear most of what you're saying, except the A's were dead last in attendance when they won 3 straight championships in the '70's, it got a bit better in the '80's and I think there is something to your point on Al Davis.
Anyways, I think the front office has alot to do with 'how' the attendance cycles. In the down years for the Braves, Brewers, Twins, etc... the ownership wasn't doing anything to encourage fans to come out. What bothers me is when I see good teams, with poor attendance. Last year, nobody went to Angels games untill they got into the playoffs, but the Angels were a good team before that, they'd been a good team for few years. I think Expos fans, you'd know better than me, are pissed cuz the team will most likely leave, but before that they got tired of seeing great players leave every year.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest, I just wish cities would support their teams or let them move to a city that will. ie. Sacrameto

[thecomic]

Re: Changes to the game

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SportsmanTO said:
TheComic you do realize that baseball attendence goes in cycles. If you had said this let's say 3-4 yrs ago you'd be contracting the Twins, Royals, Angels, and the Brewers. (tho their attendence is starting to slip again)

3 of the 4 teams have had recent success that has fueled the attendence surge. There was some rumblings of contraction (tho not nearly as loud as the last couple yrs) in the late 80s. The Indians, Braves, and Mariners were all prime candidates and look at those franchises now. They're among baseball elite. (well the Indians will be back in Baseball's elite in a couple yrs)

The currently moribound Oakland A's attendence wise used to be quite a robust team in that department until Al Davis decided to come back to Oakland and screwed up the stadium which turned off a lot of A's fans. So to say that no one has ever gone to A's games even when they were successful in the 70s and then later in the 80s is a bit of a fallacy.

The same can be said about the Expos. They were wildly popular and had respectable attendence numbers throughout the 80s but when the '94 strike occurred which hampered ownership from getting revenue from the potential playoff appearance in order to build a new stadium. Since then it's been all downhill.

So what i'm saying is that baseball attendence runs in cycles. I will say that the Montreal market is basically dead right now as well as both Florida teams. However, Montreal would be a success if MLB came back in 10 yrs like with what happened with the CFL's Alluettes. The Florida markets however were botched from the beginning and there's no hope for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I hear most of what you're saying, except the A's were dead last in attendance when they won 3 straight championships in the '70's, it got a bit better in the '80's and I think there is something to your point on Al Davis.
Anyways, I think the front office has alot to do with 'how' the attendance cycles. In the down years for the Braves, Brewers, Twins, etc... the ownership wasn't doing anything to encourage fans to come out. What bothers me is when I see good teams, with poor attendance. Last year, nobody went to Angels games untill they got into the playoffs, but the Angels were a good team before that, they'd been a good team for few years. I think Expos fans, you'd know better than me, are pissed cuz the team will most likely leave, but before that they got tired of seeing great players leave every year.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest, I just wish cities would support their teams or let them move to a city that will. ie. Sacrameto