All Star Thread

[Scott]

Re: All Star Thread

Guess 19 HR's and 51 RBI's don't matter for Kinsler....

[rsox]

Re: All Star Thread

AL Starters

1B Mark Teixeira
2B Dustin Pedroia
SS Derek Jeter
3B Evan Longoria
C Joe Mauer
OF Ichiro Suzuki
OF Jason Bay
OF Josh Hamilton

NL Starters

1B Albert Pujols
2B Chase Utley
SS Hanley Rameriz
3B David Wright
C Yadier Molina
OF Carolis Beltran
OF Raul Ibanez
OF Ryan Braun

The NL was pretty much on point. AL, they just about screwed up the entire IF except third. And I wouldn't have Hamilton on the team.

I disagree. Mauer and Bay deserve their starting spots along with Longoria.

I will say that Hill or Kinsler should start over Pedroia. Hamilton got voted on because of last year-not this year.

[rsox]

Re: All Star Thread

Three first basemen as reserves in the NL, bit much there I'll say.

All 3 are left handed sluggers. If used correctly that could help give the NL an edge in the later innings. Especially since Maddon only took 2 left handed pitchers (Buehrle, Fuentes).

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: All Star Thread

Marquis has had a good season, but Gallardo is certainly more deserving of an All-Star spot. I had figured he must be the only Rockies all-star, but Hawpe made it as well.

Marquis has the nice win total, but Gallardo is better in just about every other category.

Marquis: 10-5, 3.87 ERA (and I know he plays his home games at Coors, but even his road ERA is 3.50), 1.31 WHIP, .254 BAA, 36/51 BB/K
Gallardo: 8-5, 2.75 ERA, 1.15 WIHP, .193 BAA, 46/114 BB/K

EDIT: And Marquis is averaging more than a full run of additional support compared to Gallardo, which pretty much explains the two more wins.

Not really. In Marquis' wins, his ERA is somewhere in the 1's. You don't need much run support to win like that. The only reason his ERA is higher than Gallardo's is cuz when he's gotten hit with the losses, he's gotten absolutely destroyed lol.

And about Yadier Molina, he's hit very well this year. Not in the same ballpark as McCann of course, but Molina is an amazing fielder, and he was voted in by the fans, not the managers.

And I think Brandon Inge and Chone Figgins should make the AL team over Kinsler. They're more versatile, and they're all having about equally good seasons, so I would rather have a versatile guy like Inge or Figgins than someone like Kinsler.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: All Star Thread

I disagree. Mauer and Bay deserve their starting spots along with Longoria.

I will say that Hill or Kinsler should start over Pedroia. Hamilton got voted on because of last year-not this year.

Mauer, Bay, Ichiro, Longoria, and Tex all deserve their spots in my opinion.

[cubsfan203]

Re: All Star Thread

Nelson Cruz and Kevin Millwood both should have made it. Darn Hamilton took Nelson's spot.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: All Star Thread

Yeah Hamilton really didn't deserve it.

[Coug00]

Re: All Star Thread

I could make a long winded post about Millwood not deserving an All-Star spot, but Rob Neyer already talked about it last week.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-10/Don-t-be-fooled-by-Millwood-s-ERA.html

The difference in Millwood this year is improved defense and unsustainable luck, not improved pitching.

[pfunk880]

Re: All Star Thread

Not really. In Marquis' wins, his ERA is somewhere in the 1's. You don't need much run support to win like that. The only reason his ERA is higher than Gallardo's is cuz when he's gotten hit with the losses, he's gotten absolutely destroyed lol.

So you are saying he's inconsistent? Not really sure what point you are trying to make here. Making an argument by picking out a player's stats from just their wins makes no sense. But if you really want to play that game, Gallardo's ERA in his wins is better than Marquis ERA in his wins.

Looking at Marquis' game log, he has gotten seven or more runs of support four times in 16 starts (three of those were ten runs or more). And in over half of his starts (nine), he has gotten five runs or more. Gallardo, on the other hand, has had 9 of 16 starts where the Brewers gave him under five runs, including four games where they scored either zero or one run (Marquis has yet to get less than three runs of support in a game). So it's pretty clear that Marquis overall has benefited from having more offense behind him. Even though he does have the sub-2 ERA in his wins, a pitcher is usually a lot more confident when he knows his offense is going to support him. There's not as much pressure, and it's a little easier to go out and put up those good numbers.

And as for consistency, Gallardo has only given up more than three ER twice in 16 starts, while Marquis has done it five times. Marquis has also failed to make it through five innings twice, something Gallardo has yet to do.

I really don't even see how this is an argument. They messed up on this one.

[cubsfan203]

Re: All Star Thread

I could make a long winded post about Millwood not deserving an All-Star spot, but Rob Neyer already talked about it last week.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/sweetspot/0-4-10/Don-t-be-fooled-by-Millwood-s-ERA.html

The difference in Millwood this year is improved defense and unsustainable luck, not improved pitching.

I would also bet that he hasn't watched Millwood pitch once this season. It takes a lot more than just luck to be 6-1 with a 2.49 ERA in 10 starts at the Ballpark in Arlington. Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure that one out.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: All Star Thread

So you are saying he's inconsistent? Not really sure what point you are trying to make here. Making an argument by picking out a player's stats from just their wins makes no sense. But if you really want to play that game, Gallardo's ERA in his wins is better than Marquis ERA in his wins.

Looking at Marquis' game log, he has gotten seven or more runs of support four times in 16 starts (three of those were ten runs or more). And in over half of his starts (nine), he has gotten five runs or more. Gallardo, on the other hand, has had 9 of 16 starts where the Brewers gave him under five runs, including four games where they scored either zero or one run (Marquis has yet to get less than three runs of support in a game). So it's pretty clear that Marquis overall has benefited from having more offense behind him. Even though he does have the sub-2 ERA in his wins, a pitcher is usually a lot more confident when he knows his offense is going to support him. There's not as much pressure, and it's a little easier to go out and put up those good numbers.

And as for consistency, Gallardo has only given up more than three ER twice in 16 starts, while Marquis has done it five times. Marquis has also failed to make it through five innings twice, something Gallardo has yet to do.

I really don't even see how this is an argument. They messed up on this one.

Your point was that Marquis had more wins solely because of more run support and that is not the case at all. You don't need run support when you only give up about 1 run in your wins. He has more wins because he has pitched better than the opposing pitcher more often and he rightfully deserves a spot on the all-star team as the only pitcher in the NL with 10 wins.

[Speedy]

Re: All Star Thread

I honestly don't have too big a beef on the NL roster. Marquis has a higher ERA than Gallardo & Jurrjens but he's also pitching at Coors so the 3.87 ERA is pretty good. If Jurrjens even got a little run support he'd have 8 wins and would be an all-star...same could be said about Javy Vazquez also who has a 3.05 ERA, 2nd in the majors in K's but has a losing record.

[Mr. Fascinating]

Re: All Star Thread

It's the All-star game people, not the who-has-the-best-stats game. People wanna see the stars.

[pfunk880]

Re: All Star Thread

Your point was that Marquis had more wins solely because of more run support and that is not the case at all. You don't need run support when you only give up about 1 run in your wins. He has more wins because he has pitched better than the opposing pitcher more often and he rightfully deserves a spot on the all-star team as the only pitcher in the NL with 10 wins.

First off, wins are the most overrated stat ever. So giving a guy a spot simply because he is the only pitcher with 10 wins is complete crap. At any rate, my exact words from earlier were:

And Marquis is averaging more than a full run of additional support compared to Gallardo, which pretty much explains the two more wins.

Eight wins vs. ten wins isn't that big a difference for one thing... they are both pretty high numbers at this point. However, perhaps it's not so much that Marquis is being helped greatly by run support - I guess I'd argue more that Gallardo is being hurt by lack of run support. As I mentioned, there have been four games he's started where he got zero or one run of support. Two of them were 1-0 losses, so if he gets reasonable support in those games, there's your all-important ten wins right there and he's made up the difference. He did win one of the 1-0 games, and the fourth one was a team win but Gallardo exited after 8 innings in a 0-0 game.

So, maybe I could have worded my point more carefully, but that doesn't change the fact that it's all about the run support. When you are comparing an eight win pitcher and a ten win pitcher, and the eight win pitcher has better peripherals, run support more often than not is going to have an effect somewhere in there.

Basically, I said Marquis has two more wins because he has received more run support, and it would make slightly more sense to say Gallardo has two fewer wins because he has received less run support. It's really just semantics.

I honestly don't have too big a beef on the NL roster. Marquis has a higher ERA than Gallardo & Jurrjens but he's also pitching at Coors so the 3.87 ERA is pretty good.

I posted this before, but I'll say it again. Marquis road ERA is 3.50. If he was a much better road pitcher, than I could see an argument about Coors affecting his ERA. But Gallardo's overall era is still .75 better than Marquis's road ERA.

Ah well, Yovani will get there soon enough. I just think he deserves some recognition for stepping into the ace role and putting up great numbers in his first full major-league season. He's held the Brewers' staff together after the departures of Sabathia and Sheets, and at 23 years of age no less. He definitely got overlooked.

[Coug00]

Re: All Star Thread

It's the All-star game people, not the who-has-the-best-stats game. People wanna see the stars.

Then there are those of us who want to see the players currently performing the best.

I would also bet that he hasn't watched Millwood pitch once this season. It takes a lot more than just luck to be 6-1 with a 2.49 ERA in 10 starts at the Ballpark in Arlington. Anyone with half a brain should be able to figure that one out.

It does take more than luck, which is where the improved defense comes into play. The Rangers went from the worst fielding team in baseball in '08 to the 9th best this year.

Where exactly has Millwood improved that doesn't involve his defense?

K's? Down.
Walks? Up.
Fielding Independent Pitching? 2nd highest of career.