All Star Thread

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  • pfunk880
    MVP
    • Jul 2004
    • 4452

    #31
    Re: All Star Thread

    Originally posted by Coug00
    Then there are those of us who want to see the players currently performing the best.
    Yeah, plus it sort of goes against the whole "this one counts" mantra if you aren't taking the best players for each roster.
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    • snepp
      We'll waste him too.
      • Apr 2003
      • 10007

      #32
      Re: All Star Thread

      Originally posted by Travis40
      Can somebody tell me why Aaron Hill made it in....and Ian Kinsler is stuck on the Final Vote...Joe Maddon
      Because it's basically a toss-up between those two players?

      You need to direct your ire in the right direction, toward the fans, not Maddon. They're the ones that voted Pedroia in as the starter.
      Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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      • Speedy
        #Ace
        • Apr 2008
        • 16143

        #33
        Re: All Star Thread

        Naw, at least with a player vs. player aspect then Gallardo is definately better than Marquis. He has an ERA nearly a full run better, has given up 30 less hits, has almost 75 more K's but also has 2 less wins...Actually, the only difference between Marquis and his teammate Aaron Cook is wins (10 to 8) as everything else is identical across the board. If I'm not mistaken the players/coaches make the calls on the reserves so I don't know the logic behind that selection.
        Originally posted by Gibson88
        Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
        It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.

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        • Scott
          Your Go-to TV Expert
          • Jul 2002
          • 20032

          #34
          Re: All Star Thread

          Your right because strikeouts make you a better pitcher...
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          • snepp
            We'll waste him too.
            • Apr 2003
            • 10007

            #35
            Re: All Star Thread

            Originally posted by pfunk880
            Yeah, plus it sort of goes against the whole "this one counts" mantra if you aren't taking the best players for each roster.
            Exactly, I didn't care nearly as much about crappy selections when the game was meaningless, or the ridiculous "one player for every team" rule.
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            • pfunk880
              MVP
              • Jul 2004
              • 4452

              #36
              Re: All Star Thread

              Originally posted by Scott
              Your right because strikeouts make you a better pitcher...
              Wow, way to completely miss the argument. I'll play along anyways, though.

              I would argue that strikeouts can however help you as a pitcher. I don't think they always indicate a "better pitcher," because you certainly can be extremely successful pitching to contact, but if you rack up the strikeouts, you take the defense behind you out of the equation, and that can certainly be a good thing. You also negate the potential for luck to come into play with bad bounces, bloop hits, and the like.
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              • Speedy
                #Ace
                • Apr 2008
                • 16143

                #37
                Re: All Star Thread

                Originally posted by Scott
                Guess 19 HR's and 51 RBI's don't matter for Kinsler....
                I guess the fact that he hits only .199 and has a .310 OPS dropoff away from home hurts him a little.
                Originally posted by Gibson88
                Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
                It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.

                Comment

                • pfunk880
                  MVP
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 4452

                  #38
                  Re: All Star Thread

                  Originally posted by snepp
                  Exactly, I didn't care nearly as much about crappy selections when the game was meaningless, or the ridiculous "one player for every team" rule.
                  Yeah, if this format is going to continue, the one player per team rule has got to go.
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                  • Yeah...THAT Guy
                    Once in a Lifetime Memory
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 17294

                    #39
                    Re: All Star Thread

                    Originally posted by pfunk880
                    First off, wins are the most overrated stat ever. So giving a guy a spot simply because he is the only pitcher with 10 wins is complete crap. At any rate, my exact words from earlier were:

                    Eight wins vs. ten wins isn't that big a difference for one thing... they are both pretty high numbers at this point. However, perhaps it's not so much that Marquis is being helped greatly by run support - I guess I'd argue more that Gallardo is being hurt by lack of run support. As I mentioned, there have been four games he's started where he got zero or one run of support. Two of them were 1-0 losses, so if he gets reasonable support in those games, there's your all-important ten wins right there and he's made up the difference. He did win one of the 1-0 games, and the fourth one was a team win but Gallardo exited after 8 innings in a 0-0 game.

                    So, maybe I could have worded my point more carefully, but that doesn't change the fact that it's all about the run support. When you are comparing an eight win pitcher and a ten win pitcher, and the eight win pitcher has better peripherals, run support more often than not is going to have an effect somewhere in there.

                    Basically, I said Marquis has two more wins because he has received more run support, and it would make slightly more sense to say Gallardo has two fewer wins because he has received less run support. It's really just semantics.



                    I posted this before, but I'll say it again. Marquis road ERA is 3.50. If he was a much better road pitcher, than I could see an argument about Coors affecting his ERA. But Gallardo's overall era is still .75 better than Marquis's road ERA.

                    Ah well, Yovani will get there soon enough. I just think he deserves some recognition for stepping into the ace role and putting up great numbers in his first full major-league season. He's held the Brewers' staff together after the departures of Sabathia and Sheets, and at 23 years of age no less. He definitely got overlooked.
                    I agree that wins doesn't always show who the better pitcher is, but Manuel would have looked like a ****** if he hadn't brought the guy that has the most wins in the league right now to the All-Star game.

                    The only guy that Gallardo may have been able to rightfully replace on the team is Ted Lilly, but Lilly has been killed by poor run support just like Gallardo.

                    Either way, it's up to the manager on who he wanted to bring and he obviously sees something in Lilly and Marquis that he didn't see in Gallardo. Gallardo still has plenty of time left in his career to make the all-star game. It's ok that he missed out this year.
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                    • Scottdau
                      Banned
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 32580

                      #40
                      Re: All Star Thread

                      I think I will take a pitcher that average 17 wins a year over a pitcher that has a WHIP of .80, but only averages over 12 wins a year.

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                      • Yeah...THAT Guy
                        Once in a Lifetime Memory
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 17294

                        #41
                        Re: All Star Thread

                        Originally posted by Scottdau
                        I think I will take a pitcher that average 17 wins a year over a pitcher that has a WHIP of .80, but only averages over 12 wins a year.
                        Who averages 17 wins a year?
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                        • snepp
                          We'll waste him too.
                          • Apr 2003
                          • 10007

                          #42
                          Re: All Star Thread

                          Originally posted by Scottdau
                          I think I will take a pitcher that average 17 wins a year over a pitcher that has a WHIP of .80, but only averages over 12 wins a year.
                          I'm pretty sure we've gone through that debate before.

                          All you're basically saying is that you'd take a good team over a bad one.
                          Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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                          • pfunk880
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 4452

                            #43
                            Re: All Star Thread

                            Originally posted by WakeUnc2321
                            I guess the fact that he hits only .199 and has a .310 OPS dropoff away from home hurts him a little.
                            Wow! I had no idea his splits were that drastic.
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                            • pfunk880
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 4452

                              #44
                              Re: All Star Thread

                              Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
                              I agree that wins doesn't always show who the better pitcher is, but Manuel would have looked like a ****** if he hadn't brought the guy that has the most wins in the league right now to the All-Star game.

                              The only guy that Gallardo may have been able to rightfully replace on the team is Ted Lilly, but Lilly has been killed by poor run support just like Gallardo.

                              Either way, it's up to the manager on who he wanted to bring and he obviously sees something in Lilly and Marquis that he didn't see in Gallardo. Gallardo still has plenty of time left in his career to make the all-star game. It's ok that he missed out this year.
                              Well, Lilly had to make it as the Cubs representative.

                              I did see on another message board that Gallardo may have been overlooked because of his start schedule. Apparently Manuel wants to make sure there's no risk of a pitcher being unavailable. If that's indeed the case, then I have no problem with Gallardo being left out.
                              Originally posted by Scottdau
                              I think I will take a pitcher that average 17 wins a year over a pitcher that has a WHIP of .80, but only averages over 12 wins a year.
                              Originally posted by snepp
                              I'm pretty sure we've gone through that debate before.

                              All you're basically saying is that you'd take a good team over a bad one.
                              Yeah, I'm having flashbacks to last year's All-Star rosters thread... and probably a lot of other threads as well.
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                              • Scottdau
                                Banned
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 32580

                                #45
                                Re: All Star Thread

                                I know, but to me it is wins that I want. I will say one thing yes win can be overrated. But when you have a pitcher that you know has a good chance of winning every time he goes out there. Players feel that. They want to win for this guy and they think they can win. So wins mean something to me. In the case of Timmy. He goes out and the team thinks they can win. And it has proven to be true. Look at the run support he gets compare to other pitchers on the team. Matt is starting to get that run support too.

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