Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

[MSRoble33]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

Well deserve it or not, he'll more than likely get the pink slip here pretty soon...

[thecomic]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

[thecomic]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

[thecomic]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

I don't believe the manager is ever REALLY the problem... I just think he's just always the scapegoat... I mean what GM/owner is going to go and basically say "We're sorry we pay these guys too much to perform and they're not."? They gotta say (in a montone voice) "*insert manager here* has all the tools here to win and he's not doing it."

You almost wanna shake your head in disbelief. That's as much of a cliche as "I'm just glad I can help the club."

[MSRoble33]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

I don't believe the manager is ever REALLY the problem... I just think he's just always the scapegoat... I mean what GM/owner is going to go and basically say "We're sorry we pay these guys too much to perform and they're not."? They gotta say (in a montone voice) "*insert manager here* has all the tools here to win and he's not doing it."

You almost wanna shake your head in disbelief. That's as much of a cliche as "I'm just glad I can help the club."

[MSRoble33]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

I don't believe the manager is ever REALLY the problem... I just think he's just always the scapegoat... I mean what GM/owner is going to go and basically say "We're sorry we pay these guys too much to perform and they're not."? They gotta say (in a montone voice) "*insert manager here* has all the tools here to win and he's not doing it."

You almost wanna shake your head in disbelief. That's as much of a cliche as "I'm just glad I can help the club."

[Silverstring]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Absolutely agreed. I believe that, as significant as a coach/manager is, his impact is still highly overrated. If you give Terry Bevington(former White Sox manager-one of the WORST ever in all of baseball) the Yankees and Joe Torre the Bad News Bears(i.e. the Tigers) the Yankees will win in spite of their manager, since players have the ultimate impact. The only problem is, in sports, you cannot get rid of "slumping" players as easily as you would like(or at least get rid of them for any significant value in return). A change in management is intended to have a "trickle-down" effect, and is virtually the only recourse in the Sox situation, save a total re-re-building(Bulls territory). If I was another team, the only person I would trade for right now is Ordonenz. A coach/manger change sometimes works, sometimes it dosent, but it does have an undeniable impact(however small), one that isn't always reflected in wins and losses. Change does count for something. In this case, I'm hoping that Manuel gone will provide a "chance" for success, since the status-quo seems to be going nowhere fast.

[Silverstring]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Absolutely agreed. I believe that, as significant as a coach/manager is, his impact is still highly overrated. If you give Terry Bevington(former White Sox manager-one of the WORST ever in all of baseball) the Yankees and Joe Torre the Bad News Bears(i.e. the Tigers) the Yankees will win in spite of their manager, since players have the ultimate impact. The only problem is, in sports, you cannot get rid of "slumping" players as easily as you would like(or at least get rid of them for any significant value in return). A change in management is intended to have a "trickle-down" effect, and is virtually the only recourse in the Sox situation, save a total re-re-building(Bulls territory). If I was another team, the only person I would trade for right now is Ordonenz. A coach/manger change sometimes works, sometimes it dosent, but it does have an undeniable impact(however small), one that isn't always reflected in wins and losses. Change does count for something. In this case, I'm hoping that Manuel gone will provide a "chance" for success, since the status-quo seems to be going nowhere fast.

[Silverstring]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Oh, I agree, he's gone, but then you look at the Padres who have a great mgr in Bochy, losing, and his job is safe. If I was a Sox fan I wouldn't fall for the smokescreen. The manager aint the problem.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Absolutely agreed. I believe that, as significant as a coach/manager is, his impact is still highly overrated. If you give Terry Bevington(former White Sox manager-one of the WORST ever in all of baseball) the Yankees and Joe Torre the Bad News Bears(i.e. the Tigers) the Yankees will win in spite of their manager, since players have the ultimate impact. The only problem is, in sports, you cannot get rid of "slumping" players as easily as you would like(or at least get rid of them for any significant value in return). A change in management is intended to have a "trickle-down" effect, and is virtually the only recourse in the Sox situation, save a total re-re-building(Bulls territory). If I was another team, the only person I would trade for right now is Ordonenz. A coach/manger change sometimes works, sometimes it dosent, but it does have an undeniable impact(however small), one that isn't always reflected in wins and losses. Change does count for something. In this case, I'm hoping that Manuel gone will provide a "chance" for success, since the status-quo seems to be going nowhere fast.

[Goaty]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Regardless, as the season slips away, who would you like to see as the next manager of the White Sox? I believe Valentine(although I dont think he would leave ESPN in the middle of a season) would be someone who would make the players take notice.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Wally Bachman. He is managing successfully in the White Sox farm system now, has Valentine's "fire in the belly" without Valentine's baggage. If there was ever a team that needed a kick in the *ss it is the 2003 White Sox

[Goaty]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Regardless, as the season slips away, who would you like to see as the next manager of the White Sox? I believe Valentine(although I dont think he would leave ESPN in the middle of a season) would be someone who would make the players take notice.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Wally Bachman. He is managing successfully in the White Sox farm system now, has Valentine's "fire in the belly" without Valentine's baggage. If there was ever a team that needed a kick in the *ss it is the 2003 White Sox

[Goaty]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Regardless, as the season slips away, who would you like to see as the next manager of the White Sox? I believe Valentine(although I dont think he would leave ESPN in the middle of a season) would be someone who would make the players take notice.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Wally Bachman. He is managing successfully in the White Sox farm system now, has Valentine's "fire in the belly" without Valentine's baggage. If there was ever a team that needed a kick in the *ss it is the 2003 White Sox

[Goaty]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Absolutely agreed. I believe that, as significant as a coach/manager is, his impact is still highly overrated.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Not in this case. The manager should be held accountable when the team is not playing sound fundamental baseball and makes tons of mental errors.

Examples:

Jimenez getting picked off twice in a game.

Olivo running the team out of innings by making the 3rd out at 3rd base, a cardinal sin. That bonehead tried to go 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball to 3rd recently. The 3rd baseman was so surprised he had to pull back his throw to 1st and make a diving tag. Little leaguers do not make such base-running blunders. Piniella would have benched him.

Crede's sissy "excuse me" non-tag on Mientkiewicz in a big game against the Twinks.

And let's not forget the countless times that the Sox have been unable to move the runner from 2nd to 3rd with no outs. Big problem for a team that is having trouble scoring.

You have to wonder what the hell the Sox did in spring training.

And let's not forget Manuel's terrible bullpen management. Sure Koch has struggled some but he is not going to right himself if Jerry keeps putting in Flash Gordon.

I am not a "fire the manager" guy and realize that the manager can't take the field. But I have seen almost every Sox game this year and if there was ever a manager that deserved to be fired it is Jerry Manuel.

When Bill Melton says that this is the worst Sox offense he has ever seen that is saying something. It is not just the slumping bats, it is that they are running themselves out of innings and cannot advance the runner. When you are slumping it is the manager's job to help manufacture runs. And it has become obvious that Manuel is not up to the job.

[Goaty]

Re: Did Corky just postpone the Jerry Manuel firing?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

Absolutely agreed. I believe that, as significant as a coach/manager is, his impact is still highly overrated.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Not in this case. The manager should be held accountable when the team is not playing sound fundamental baseball and makes tons of mental errors.

Examples:

Jimenez getting picked off twice in a game.

Olivo running the team out of innings by making the 3rd out at 3rd base, a cardinal sin. That bonehead tried to go 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball to 3rd recently. The 3rd baseman was so surprised he had to pull back his throw to 1st and make a diving tag. Little leaguers do not make such base-running blunders. Piniella would have benched him.

Crede's sissy "excuse me" non-tag on Mientkiewicz in a big game against the Twinks.

And let's not forget the countless times that the Sox have been unable to move the runner from 2nd to 3rd with no outs. Big problem for a team that is having trouble scoring.

You have to wonder what the hell the Sox did in spring training.

And let's not forget Manuel's terrible bullpen management. Sure Koch has struggled some but he is not going to right himself if Jerry keeps putting in Flash Gordon.

I am not a "fire the manager" guy and realize that the manager can't take the field. But I have seen almost every Sox game this year and if there was ever a manager that deserved to be fired it is Jerry Manuel.

When Bill Melton says that this is the worst Sox offense he has ever seen that is saying something. It is not just the slumping bats, it is that they are running themselves out of innings and cannot advance the runner. When you are slumping it is the manager's job to help manufacture runs. And it has become obvious that Manuel is not up to the job.