Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
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Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post -
Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
The deck was stacked against him.You want free speech?
Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
If Maddon truly possessed some manager secret sauce, it should've showed up during his Angels tenure. He wasn't the problem in Anaheim, but he couldn't overcome Arte Moreno's baseball terrorism, either.
I think Maddon is about 200 wins and another playoff appearance or two short. As is, he ranks behind Bochy, Dusty, Francona, Davey Johnson ('86 Mets World Series, led 4 different teams to division titles over 25 years), and probably our old friend Sweet Lou Piniella ('90 Reds World Series, Seattle legend, 6 division titles, 450 more wins than Maddon, star of a million YouTube highlights). Not that it matters. If Maddon never manages again, his legacy of innovation and respectability in Tampa and iconic triumph in Chicago is assured regardless, Cooperstown or not.Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your postComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
I don't disagree, but the deck is still stacked against the Rays (bottom 5 payroll in MLB every year, brutal division), and they've still made the playoffs each of the last 5 seasons (and missed with 90 wins the year before). Clearly Tampa's success against the odds goes beyond just Maddon.
If Maddon truly possessed some manager secret sauce, it should've showed up during his Angels tenure. He wasn't the problem in Anaheim, but he couldn't overcome Arte Moreno's baseball terrorism, either.
I think Maddon is about 200 wins and another playoff appearance or two short. As is, he ranks behind Bochy, Dusty, Francona, Davey Johnson ('86 Mets World Series, led 4 different teams to division titles over 25 years), and probably our old friend Sweet Lou Piniella ('90 Reds World Series, Seattle legend, 6 division titles, 450 more wins than Maddon, star of a million YouTube highlights). Not that it matters. If Maddon never manages again, his legacy of innovation and respectability in Tampa and iconic triumph in Chicago is assured regardless, Cooperstown or not.Talk about things nobody cares.
Screw Discord. Make OS Great Again.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
I really thought of Joe Maddon as a baseball genius when he was in Tampa Bay; when he left, I expected the Rays to fall off hard. Instead, they've been just fine without him (actually, Cash has done better...higher win % and more playoff appearances). Meanwhile, Maddon didn't look great in Chicago...I think they won in 2016 despite him and man...that team really underperformed after 2016."People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers HornsbyComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Theo Epstein is likely the only one associated with the 2016 Chicago Cubs who will be enshrined in Cooperstown someday, and given the collection of young talent on that team, it's shocking.
World Series champions with no current Hall of Famers on the rosters, and their future prospects:
1981/1988 Dodgers: No (although Lasorda's already a HOF manager)
1997 Marlins: Unlikely (Sheffield might get lucky with the right Veterans Committee makeup, I suppose; maybe Kevin Brown's candidacy is re-evaluated in the distant future? Leyland's already in as a manager)
2002 Angels: No (K-Rod had the best chance)
2008 Phillies: Maybe (I think Utley gets voted in after a few years; Rollins seems like the type who might get some Veterans Committee love)
2010/2012/2014 Giants: Yes (Buster is a lock)
2011 Cardinals: Yes (Pujols obviously, most likely Yadi)
2015 Royals: No
2016 Cubs: No (Epstein will get in as an executive)
2017/2022 Astros: Yes (Verlander is a lock, Beltran will get in, almost certainly Altuve, possibly others)
2018 Red Sox: Yes (Betts is a lock, Devers in on track)
2019 Nationals: Yes (Scherzer is a lock, Soto is on track)
2020 Dodgers: Yes (Kershaw is a lock, Mookie again, Seager might if he can stay healthy and productive in his 30s)
2021 Braves: Probably (Freeman should make it, barring a catastrophic injury/decline; too early to tell with others)
2023 Rangers: Yes (Scherzer and Seager again; too early to tell with others)
With the '81 Dodgers (Garvey, Valenzuela), '88 Dodgers (Gibson, Hershiser), '02 Angels (Glaus), and '16 Cubs (Bryant, probably Rizzo, maybe Lester or Arrieta if everything went right, plus so many promising youngsters), it seemed inevitable that they were sending folks to Cooperstown.
The 2015 Royals are unique in that they're the only Series-winning team that, even at the time, didn't really look like they had any likely Hall of Famers. Which is pretty cool, really. A true "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" underdog with an amazing two-year run.
EDIT: The 2005 White Sox avoid this list via technicality. Frank Thomas got a ring, but suffered a season-ending injury in mid-July.Last edited by DrJones; 04-02-2024, 01:27 PM.Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your postComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
The 2015 Royals are unique in that they're the only Series-winning team that, even at the time, didn't really look like they had any likely Hall of Famers. Which is pretty cool, really. A true "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" underdog with an amazing two-year run.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Sure, he's the Royals' best shot. But Posada (worse defensively than Perez, but a superior hitter) didn't make it past the 1st ballot. If Posada topped out at 3.8%, I have a difficult time seeing Salvy hit 75.Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your postComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Perez is still only 33. He's at 250 homers and has a realistic shot at 300 homers before his career is done. Seven of the eight catchers who have hit 300 homers are in the Hall. I like his chances if he can continue being relatively productive. Not a first ballot Hall of Famer but I could see him getting in after a couple seasons of voting.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Perez is still only 33. He's at 250 homers and has a realistic shot at 300 homers before his career is done. Seven of the eight catchers who have hit 300 homers are in the Hall. I like his chances if he can continue being relatively productive. Not a first ballot Hall of Famer but I could see him getting in after a couple seasons of voting.
Perez .268/.301/.460, 105 OPS+
To reiterate: Posada hit 275 HR, won 4 World Series with the Yankees, was a much better hitter, got eliminated easily on the 1st ballot. An extra 25 HR would've upped his voting percentage from 4 to 75+?
By the time Perez becomes eligible, the vast majority of BBWAA voters will be new-school types - no way in hell they're voting for someone with a .300 OBP. Perez will need 400 HR or a prominent role in another WS title to have a chance. Posada has a better chance of reaching Cooperstown via Veterans Committee than Perez does via the writers.Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your postComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Posada .273/.374/.474, 121 OPS+
Perez .268/.301/.460, 105 OPS+
To reiterate: Posada hit 275 HR, won 4 World Series with the Yankees, was a much better hitter, got eliminated easily on the 1st ballot. An extra 25 HR would've upped his voting percentage from 4 to 75+?
By the time Perez becomes eligible, the vast majority of BBWAA voters will be new-school types - no way in hell they're voting for someone with a .300 OBP. Perez will need 400 HR or a prominent role in another WS title to have a chance. Posada has a better chance of reaching Cooperstown via Veterans Committee than Perez does via the writers.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...hof_2017.shtml
He wouldn't have been among my 10 candidates either that year. That's an absurd field.
I agree he has a chance via the Veterans Committe but he was never known as a great fielding catcher whereas Perez has that reputation with five Gold Gloves.
I guess if Perez plays like more five years and we wait five years for him to become eligible, we can settle this debate in like 10-to-12 years.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Bad luck by Posada that his first year of eligibility was a completely stacked 2017 list. Check it out:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...hof_2017.shtml
He wouldn't have been among my 10 candidates either that year. That's an absurd field.
I agree he has a chance via the Veterans Committe but he was never known as a great fielding catcher whereas Perez has that reputation with five Gold Gloves.
Originally posted by Thrash13Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.Originally posted by slickdtcDrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.Originally posted by Kipnis22yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your postComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Posada is tied for 29th all-time for fWAR among catchers, Perez is, checks notes, 126th. Projections have him earning an additional 1.3fWAR this year, 1.0fWAR next year and 0.3 in 2026.
I will go on a limb and say Salvador won't get in through the regular process, if at all.OSHA Inspector for the NBA.Comment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
I have never thought of Salvy as a future HOF, but last Sunday on baseball tonight Buster Olney called him “future HOF” Salvador Perez…that really surprised me. Who knows?
Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers HornsbyComment
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Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?
Rose colored glasses or not, it's crazy the best defensive CF ever can't get in.Originally posted by Gibson88Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.Comment
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