Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

The hall has no meaning to me without Andruw.

Rose colored glasses or not, it's crazy the best defensive CF ever can't get in.

Andruw's getting in.

BBWAA votes in 2019: 7.5%
2020: 19.4%
2021: 33.4%
2022: 41.4%
2023: 58.1%
2024: 61.6%

Here's the competition that Andruw faces before he falls off the ballot:

2025 top candidates: Ichiro Suzuki (1st year on ballot), CC Sabathia (1st), Billy Wagner (10th, 73.8%), Andruw Jones (8th, 61.6%), Carlos Beltran (57.1%)

2026 top candidates: nobody, except whoever didn't make it in 2025 (minus Wagner)

2027: Buster Posey (1st), plus whoever didn't make it in 2026

I'd be really surprised if all 6 of these players aren't in by 2027. Chase Utley will also probably make it, but later.

[dubcity]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I have never thought of Salvy as a future HOF, but last Sunday on baseball tonight Buster Olney called him “future HOF” Salvador Perez…that really surprised me. Who knows?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

He definitely has a pretty good resume as a catcher. Silver sluggers and gold gloves. It adds up to a good case.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Perez still needs a few more great not average years to get ahead of guys like Darrell Porter, Jason Kendall, Gene Tenace, Jim Sundberg, guys who were really good but probably never getting inducted. Perez is still behind his contemporary current players Russell Martin, Realmuto, Molina and Posey. If Molina and Posey get in (and Molina would seem a certain lock) I don't know if a third from this era gets in.

[Majingir]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

2025 HOF coming up.

Let's say about 390 votes get cast, that means 293 is needed.

Ichiro is currently at 151 (100% of all known ballots so far)

CC is at 140 (92.7%)

Wagner at 127 (84.1%)

Beltran at 120 (79.5%)

A. Jones at 112 (74.2%)

So who from this list is in? Is Ichiro going in unanimously?

Beltran/Jones are currently borderline.

Does CC and Wagner get in or will they face a big drop? CC needs 64% of remaining votes, Wagner needs 69% of remaining votes.

Felix Hernandez not getting lots of love, although it makes sense given his career was basically done after he turned 30, but there was a few year window where he was arguably one of the best in the AL, up there with the likes of Verlander and Price.

I don't see Beltran as a HOF player. And CC is definitely getting the Yankee boost.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

2025 HOF coming up.

Let's say about 390 votes get cast, that means 293 is needed.

Ichiro is currently at 151 (100% of all known ballots so far)

CC is at 140 (92.7%)

Wagner at 127 (84.1%)

Beltran at 120 (79.5%)

A. Jones at 112 (74.2%)

So who from this list is in? Is Ichiro going in unanimously?

Beltran/Jones are currently borderline.

Does CC and Wagner get in or will they face a big drop? CC needs 64% of remaining votes, Wagner needs 69% of remaining votes.

Felix Hernandez not getting lots of love, although it makes sense given his career was basically done after he turned 30, but there was a few year window where he was arguably one of the best in the AL, up there with the likes of Verlander and Price.

I don't see Beltran as a HOF player. And CC is definitely getting the Yankee boost.

My guess is that Ichiro, Sabathia, and Wagner all make it this year, Andruw and Beltran next. Not much in the way of electable candidates the next couple years (nobody worthwhile in 2026, Posey in 2027).

King Felix is at least going to stay on the ballot for awhile. Johan Santana was as good as Felix, but was one-and-done (2.8%).

I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but I'd like to see some evidence for "the Yankee boost". Munson, Mattingly, Pettitte, Posada - all hyped Yankees icons with fringy HOF cases, and none have come remotely close to Cooperstown. CC might be the worst pitcher to accumulate 3000 strikeouts, but it's still rarified air and a free pass to the Hall.

Beltran would be in already without Trashcan-gate. He's basically Andre Dawson if the Hawk took the occasional walk as well.

Modern Era (1901-) eligible players with BRef 70+ WAR not in HOF:

P: Clemens, Schilling
IF: A-Rod, Palmeiro, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich
OF: Bonds, Rose, Beltran

Unlike Grich and Sweet Lou, Beltran has shiny counting stats (.275 AVG, 400 HR, 300 SB) plus all the playoff HR in 2004 - he'll get in, though it probably won't be until next year.

[Master Live 013]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code">

2025 BBWAA Hall of Fame voting: Ichiro Suzuki, CC Sabathia, Billy Wagner electedhttps://t.co/4n2elq5KFm pic.twitter.com/BF0x4nIhCl
— BBWAA (@officialBBWAA) January 21, 2025

********</code></samp>

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code">

2025 BBWAA Hall of Fame voting: Ichiro Suzuki, CC Sabathia, Billy Wagner electedhttps://t.co/4n2elq5KFm pic.twitter.com/BF0x4nIhCl
— BBWAA (@officialBBWAA) January 21, 2025

********</code></samp>

Looks like the big movers were Beltran, Utley, and Andy Pettitte (!) - the only 3 to increase their vote totals by more than 10%.

Meanwhile, Torii Hunter whips out yet another immunity idol at tribal council, LOL. He's somehow survived 5 years on the ballot while never receiving even 10% of the vote.

[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[emoji50]*[emoji100]

Andruw still getting snubbed.

[Majingir]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I imagine whoever snubbed Ichiro is going to stay anonymous, however, I wonder if people would be able to get a decent idea of who it might have been if they use process of elimination (seeing whose name was voting last year vs who didn't show up on it this year)?

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I imagine whoever snubbed Ichiro is going to stay anonymous, however, I wonder if people would be able to get a decent idea of who it might have been if they use process of elimination (seeing whose name was voting last year vs who didn't show up on it this year)?

This is what happened when Jeter got snubbed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/c...ars_to_be_the/

Given how ancient some of the voters are (once you get a BBHOF vote, you retain it until 10 years after you retire), it wouldn't surprise me if there's a 90-year-old out there who still holds a grudge about Pearl Harbor.

[Majingir]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

This is what happened when Jeter got snubbed.



https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/c...ars_to_be_the/



Given how ancient some of the voters are (once you get a BBHOF vote, you retain it until 10 years after you retire), it wouldn't surprise me if there's a 90-year-old out there who still holds a grudge about Pearl Harbor.

That's a flaw in the entire system.

They really should just have a committee (like they do for the veterans selection) and just let them decide. The whole "100%" or "1st ballot HOFer" or "vote to keep them on the ballot for X years" stuff I've never been a fan of any of that kind of talk.

Either they're in or they're not.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Ichiro and Jeter were elected to the HoF. Thats really all that matters. A hundred percent vote-in is inconsequential. If they didn't get in, then I'd say the system is flawed. If Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron and Willie Mays didn't go in with a hundred percent, then I'd say Ichiro and Jeter are in pretty good company.

The system may very well be flawed, but players going in with ''only'' 99% isn't the flaw.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

That's a flaw in the entire system.

They really should just have a committee (like they do for the veterans selection) and just let them decide. The whole "100%" or "1st ballot HOFer" or "vote to keep them on the ballot for X years" stuff I've never been a fan of any of that kind of talk.

Either they're in or they're not.

Well, except the Veterans Committee does the same thing (nobody is "eliminated" permanently from consideration if they're not voted in by the VC the 1st time) and small committees lead to stuff like LaRussa and Reinsdorf getting Harold Baines into the Hall. I've seen more questionable choices by the VC than from the writers over the years.

I think the problem is that there are too many BBWAA voters that are out of the loop and don't really follow MLB anymore. Most national and local writers who follow baseball on a regular basis make defensible picks - it's 70-year-old "general columnists" who maybe write about MLB once a year who should be culled from the voting ranks.

And the "either they're in or they're out" thing would mean Edgar Martinez, Andruw Jones, etc. would never get a chance.

Here are the 1st ballot players since 2000: Winfield, Puckett, Ozzie, Eddie Murray, Molitor, Eckersley, Boggs, Ripken, Gwynn, Rickey, Maddux, Glavine, Big Hurt, Big Unit, Pedro, Smoltz, Griffey, Pudge Rodriguez, Chipper, Thome, Rivera, Halladay, Jeter, Big Papi, Beltre, Mauer, Ichiro, Sabathia

Among those who were 2nd ballot or later: Bagwell, OG Pudge, Piazza, Larkin, Alomar, Ryne Sandberg, Gary Carter, Vladdy Sr., etc.

Mike Mussina had a far superior career to CC Sabathia, and it took him 6 tries.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I'd rather get 99% than be in the same sentence as the absolutely terrible human being that got 100%.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I'd rather get 99% than be in the same sentence as the absolutely terrible human being that got 100%.

Why? I might not agree with Rivera's politics, but *googles*... ah crap.