Most impressive pitcher thus far?

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  • Sportsforever
    NL MVP
    • Mar 2005
    • 20368

    #31
    Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

    Originally posted by elTodd
    True, but I don't understand how we can discount fielding in a pitcher's stats but not in a hitter's. I just don't seem to understand the logic there. I don't think there should be that double standard.
    I understand what your saying, but think about this: what if I had a batting practice pitcher throw pitches to you and Albert Pujols. Who's going to hit the ball harder more consistently? A hitter has control over HOW he hits the ball. A good hitter will have a high line drive %, etc.

    If you study the numbers it shows you that pitchers batting average on balls in play doesn't remain steady (and regresses to the leage average) throughout their career while a hitter's BABIP DOES seem to show trends and not regress to the mean.
    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

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    • elTodd
      Little Big Puig
      • Feb 2004
      • 1333

      #32
      Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

      Originally posted by Sportsforever
      I understand what your saying, but think about this: what if I had a batting practice pitcher throw pitches to you and Albert Pujols. Who's going to hit the ball harder more consistently? A hitter has control over HOW he hits the ball. A good hitter will have a high line drive %, etc.

      If you study the numbers it shows you that pitchers batting average on balls in play doesn't remain steady (and regresses to the leage average) throughout their career while a hitter's BABIP DOES seem to show trends and not regress to the mean.
      If a batter has THAT much contorl over how he hits the ball, why wouldn't everyone hit a double in the gap or down the line every at bat?

      I understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't explain the reasoning for discounting fielding in a pitcher's case but not a hitter's..

      Comment

      • snepp
        We'll waste him too.
        • Apr 2003
        • 10007

        #33
        Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

        Batters hit to a wide array of defenses, over the long haul there isn't going to be much of any difference between the defenses faced by Batter A and Batter B.

        Pitchers typically have the exact same defense behind them every single game, and the differences in quality between various defenses can be very dramatic.

        That's basically why defense doesn't matter for evaluating hitters, while it's immensely important when evaluating pitchers.
        Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

        Comment

        • Chip Douglass
          Hall Of Fame
          • Dec 2005
          • 12256

          #34
          Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

          Originally posted by snepp
          Batters hit to a wide array of defenses, over the long haul there isn't going to be much of any difference between the defenses faced by Batter A and Batter B.

          Pitchers typically have the exact same defense behind them every single game, and the differences in quality between various defenses can be very dramatic.

          That's basically why defense doesn't matter for evaluating hitters, while it's immensely important when evaluating pitchers.
          What he said.
          I write things on the Internet.

          Comment

          • Sportsforever
            NL MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 20368

            #35
            Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

            Originally posted by snepp
            Batters hit to a wide array of defenses, over the long haul there isn't going to be much of any difference between the defenses faced by Batter A and Batter B.

            Pitchers typically have the exact same defense behind them every single game, and the differences in quality between various defenses can be very dramatic.

            That's basically why defense doesn't matter for evaluating hitters, while it's immensely important when evaluating pitchers.
            Man, you explained that way too clearly. Thanks...
            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

            Comment

            • elTodd
              Little Big Puig
              • Feb 2004
              • 1333

              #36
              Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

              Originally posted by snepp
              Batters hit to a wide array of defenses, over the long haul there isn't going to be much of any difference between the defenses faced by Batter A and Batter B.

              Pitchers typically have the exact same defense behind them every single game, and the differences in quality between various defenses can be very dramatic.

              That's basically why defense doesn't matter for evaluating hitters, while it's immensely important when evaluating pitchers.
              Those are very good points. Glad someone could explain that.

              Having said that, I still don't totally agree with the logic and reasoning. I've previously stated my opinion on the FIP stat, and that opinion carries over into this discussion.

              Comment

              • ZB9
                Hall Of Fame
                • Nov 2004
                • 18387

                #37
                Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

                Cliff Lee's strikeout to walk ratio is insane. He is on pace to set the MLB record

                and he was certainly impressive against the Angels tonight, only 99 pitches in 8 and 1/3rd, no walks...his most challenging inning was 17 pitches

                Comment

                • Chip Douglass
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 12256

                  #38
                  Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

                  Originally posted by ZB9
                  Cliff Lee's strikeout to walk ratio is insane. He is on pace to set the MLB record

                  and he was certainly impressive against the Angels tonight, only 99 pitches in 8 and 1/3rd, no walks...his most challenging inning was 17 pitches
                  If Cliff Lee strikes out 13 batters and walks one, his K/BB ratio goes down. He's also allowed more HRs (8) than walks (7). Insane to think about.

                  His K/BB ratio is something you expect to see in the first 1-2 weeks of the season when the sample sizes are extremely small. We're past the All-Star break and he's still hovering around a 14 K/BB ratio.
                  Last edited by Chip Douglass; 07-22-2010, 10:19 PM.
                  I write things on the Internet.

                  Comment

                  • Sportsforever
                    NL MVP
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 20368

                    #39
                    Re: Most impressive pitcher thus far?

                    Originally posted by Olson-for-Heisman
                    If Cliff Lee strikes out 13 batters and walks one, his K/BB ratio goes down. He's also allowed more HRs (8) than walks (7). Insane to think about.

                    His K/BB ratio is something you expect to see in the first 1-2 weeks of the season when the sample sizes are extremely small. We're past the All-Star break and he's still hovering around a 14 K/BB ratio.
                    I just checked and that would be the all-time best by a long way...Saberhagen in 1994 would be second with an 11:1 ration.
                    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                    Comment

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