Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Hate when ignorant people yell steroids everytime somebody hits homers. It's the people that know nothing about a baseball swing...they don't know that you can adjust your swing and do things to increase/decrease your power. They think that it's the same player, same everything, except he hits homers now so he takes steroids.

Bautista started his swing earlier, seems like he put more emphasis in that leg kick, two simple things like that will do wonders for your bat speed. I know from experience. Sometimes the most simple and easy change in your swing can open up a ton of power that you never know you had.

[JBH3]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

From 2005 to 2008 it looks like he was just a swinger.

He played only 21 games as Jay in 2008, and by 2009 - his first yr as a Jay - there was already a noticeable change in approach just from looking at his raw numbers.

I would make the assumption that he was in and out of horrible organizations that were not known for developing much talent.

• Drafted by the Pirates.
• Debuted in 2004.
• Played w/ the O's, Rays, and Royals in 2004 before going back to the Pirates.
• With the Pirates from 2005 to 2008.
• Moved to the Jays near the end of 2008 season.
• By 2009 he was on the uptick, K's were the lowest in his career, and K:BB was improving.
• By 2010 his approach, and development within a better organization was evident.

Yea...I think he's legit.

So as a 30 yr old just now bursting on the scene, what's his cieling?

[av7]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

I know I posted in here last year about his location of HRs. Counting from last year, he has hit 1 to RF according to baseball-ref. Thats pretty crazy he's managed to avoid that side of the field

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Hate when ignorant people yell steroids everytime somebody hits homers. It's the people that know nothing about a baseball swing...they don't know that you can adjust your swing and do things to increase/decrease your power. They think that it's the same player, same everything, except he hits homers now so he takes steroids.

Bautista started his swing earlier, seems like he put more emphasis in that leg kick, two simple things like that will do wonders for your bat speed. I know from experience. Sometimes the most simple and easy change in your swing can open up a ton of power that you never know you had.

C'mon, man. Fans, myself included, have been doing this since the Bash Brothers and Brady Anderson. It obviously got worse in the last decade. What did you expect? Yeah, it sure looks like Bautista made an adjustment and that's been the secret to his success. But, can you blame any fan for being skeptical, considering the way MLB ignored the steroid issue for the last couple of decades, especially post-1994, when a guy who had played about 4 full MLB seasons hadn't hit more than 16 HR's in any one of them and then all of a sudden hits 54?

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Interestingly Pirates scouts back in the day projected him to be a power hitter once he matured.

I still think a lot of credit has to go to Cito Gaston and Dwayne Murphy for helping him modify his swing and approach to the plate. If that's the only good thing to come out of Cito's 2nd tour of duty in Toronto then it's a good thing that is paying off in huge dividends.

Yup, and he did have 24 home runs in 496 at-bats in his last full season in the minors. Of course some players don't have that power translate immediately in the Majors (like Kevin Kouzmanoff and Xavier Nady), but I'm assuming he has figured things out.

Actually for baseball's seek I hope it's just that.

[12]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Hate when ignorant people yell steroids everytime somebody hits homers. It's the people that know nothing about a baseball swing...they don't know that you can adjust your swing and do things to increase/decrease your power. They think that it's the same player, same everything, except he hits homers now so he takes steroids.

Bautista started his swing earlier, seems like he put more emphasis in that leg kick, two simple things like that will do wonders for your bat speed. I know from experience. Sometimes the most simple and easy change in your swing can open up a ton of power that you never know you had.

I think Bautista is legit but you can't blame fans for being skeptical. It's the era we've been in. It's what baseball used to be. So many stars have been outed as being steroid users, so naturally people are going to question it.

There's no reason to call anyone ignorant over it.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

They are tested for performance enhancing drugs. People did the same thing with Ibanez a few years ago. They don't pay any attention to the fact that the player has a completely new swing, new approach, or what the player says. They just see homeruns as a direct relation to steroids. That is ignorant. There were homeruns before steroids.

It's ok to be skeptical when Barry Bonds shows up to spring training ridiculously huge with a bigger head. But just because somebody hits more homeruns doesn't mean it's possibly they took steroids. Bautista looks exactly the same. His swing is totally different. The typical fan doesn't even look at his swing or anything, and just started going crazy about steroids.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

They are tested for performance enhancing drugs. People did the same thing with Ibanez a few years ago. They don't pay any attention to the fact that the player has a completely new swing, new approach, or what the player says. They just see homeruns as a direct relation to steroids. That is ignorant. There were homeruns before steroids.

It's ok to be skeptical when Barry Bonds shows up to spring training ridiculously huge with a bigger head. But just because somebody hits more homeruns doesn't mean it's possibly they took steroids. Bautista looks exactly the same. His swing is totally different. The typical fan doesn't even look at his swing or anything, and just started going crazy about steroids.

Like the others have said, it is far from ignorant to be skeptical of a guy who's previous career high of home runs was like 16 to hitting 54. After what the game has gone through over the last 20 years, it is almost necessary to be so skeptical and assume guilty until proven innocent. And I don't know what you're trying to say with the bolded sentence, but it is entirely possible that the guy hitting more home runs took steroids. Ignorant is too strong a word to throw around because of some people who are rightfully justified in questioning his transformation. It is almost definitely his swing improvements, a new approach, and a new mindset altogether, but turning a blind eye to steroids is what got us here.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

They are tested for performance enhancing drugs. People did the same thing with Ibanez a few years ago. They don't pay any attention to the fact that the player has a completely new swing, new approach, or what the player says. They just see homeruns as a direct relation to steroids. That is ignorant. There were homeruns before steroids.

It's ok to be skeptical when Barry Bonds shows up to spring training ridiculously huge with a bigger head. But just because somebody hits more homeruns doesn't mean it's possibly they took steroids. Bautista looks exactly the same. His swing is totally different. The typical fan doesn't even look at his swing or anything, and just started going crazy about steroids.

So they say. They've lied to us before. Whose to say they aren't still doing it? Not saying Bautista or others are juicing but to blindly trust MLB and the MLBPA at their word is naive after all that has happened. I don't understand why you're getting so defensive about this. There are plenty of knowledgeable, non-ignorant baseball fans on this board who know full well about Bautista's swing change and still hold/held some skepticism about last season. Again, considering the past indiscretions of some, I think it's perfectly understandable to have a little skepticism.

[12]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

They are tested for performance enhancing drugs. People did the same thing with Ibanez a few years ago. They don't pay any attention to the fact that the player has a completely new swing, new approach, or what the player says. They just see homeruns as a direct relation to steroids. That is ignorant. There were homeruns before steroids.

It's ok to be skeptical when Barry Bonds shows up to spring training ridiculously huge with a bigger head. But just because somebody hits more homeruns doesn't mean it's possibly they took steroids. Bautista looks exactly the same. His swing is totally different. The typical fan doesn't even look at his swing or anything, and just started going crazy about steroids.

I guess at the end of the day, I simply don't care who people think took steroids. About the body changing, other players who have been busted had bodies that did not change drastically. Rafael Palmeiro and Ryan Franklin are two off the top of my head. I don't think physical indicators are always the best things to look at when having an opinion.

Testing is great, but it's not 100 percent. Science is always improving and the players will most likely stay one step ahead of the testing.

I'm just not going to call these people ignorant because this is what baseball has kind of created for itself. I don't like people saying that all of these players took steroids without basis because I believe in innocence until proven otherwise, but I'm not going to fault some fans for their suspicions.

[12]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

So they say. They've lied to us before. Whose to say they aren't still doing it? Not saying Bautista or others are juicing but to blindly trust MLB and the MLBPA at their word is naive after all that has happened. I don't understand why you're getting so defensive about this. There are plenty of knowledgeable, non-ignorant baseball fans on this board who know full well about Bautista's swing change and still hold/held some skepticism about last season. Again, considering the past indiscretions of some, I think it's perfectly understandable to have a little skepticism.

Exactly. People can still be diehard baseball fans and not realize that Bautista's swing and approach has changed. He shattered his career high in home runs by 38 bombs last season.

It's not outlandish that people are going to question this sudden emergence when the guy more than triples his previous career high in home runs.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

So they say. They've lied to us before. Whose to say they aren't still doing it? Not saying Bautista or others are juicing but to blindly trust MLB and the MLBPA at their word is naive after all that has happened. I don't understand why you're getting so defensive about this. There are plenty of knowledgeable, non-ignorant baseball fans on this board who know full well about Bautista's swing change and still hold/held some skepticism about last season. Again, considering the past indiscretions of some, I think it's perfectly understandable to have a little skepticism.

Well Manny Ramirez just got caught and it forced his retirement, so I think they're still testing.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Well Manny Ramirez just got caught and it forced his retirement, so I think they're still testing.

Maybe so but he was also at the end of his career and rather irrelevant.

[rsox]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

Maybe so but he was also at the end of his career and rather irrelevant.

True.

But if MLB is not going to cover for a-then-future Hall Of Famer they would have no reason not test and reaveal publicly someone like Bautista.

Unfortnately this is the culture that MLB has created with the past wrong doings. A guy comes out of nowhere and crushes 54 HR's and immediately everyones first though goes to PED's.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: Jose Bautista - Rake or Fake?

True.

But if MLB is not going to cover for a-then-future Hall Of Famer they would have no reason not test and reaveal publicly someone like Bautista.

Unfortnately this is the culture that MLB has created with the past wrong doings. A guy comes out of nowhere and crushes 54 HR's and immediately everyones first though goes to PED's.

You got no argument from me on any of that, really. I've just become rather cynical as I've gotten older.