Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

[Blzer]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

After seeing what Atlanta has not been able to draw the last 15 years despite their seasonal successes, I can honestly say that the lack of fans are the sole blame for this.

But Tropicana Field is also a sorry excuse for a stadium.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Have you folks who are saying it's on the fans been to a game there? I have been to several Marlins games and have been to the Trop (not for baseball though) and here is the issue: neither of these stadiums are in a good spot for baseball.

For the Marlins, it's a football stadium. Football happens 8 times a year on the weekend, so people are willing to drive 45-60 minutes to the game. You can't do that every day, all summer for 81 games. Traffic is horrendous getting there and the parking is even worse.

The Trop is just a dump in a bad location that becomes an nightmare when people want to go there for an event.

This is why these teams are pushing for new ballparks...I guarantee if the Rays were playing a park like Target Field or PETCO they'd be doing much better.

Finally, lets not forget the economy. I live here in San Diego were the team has been winning all summer...as a season ticket holder I've gone to games and seen 15,000 people there more times than not.

Winning and good ballparks cure a lot of things, but it doesn't make money appear in the bank account.

[Bubba_Zanetti]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

For those criticising the fans, it isn't always so cut and dry. Lack of a good baseball stadium, not in a very good area, across the bay in St. Petersburg rather than the much more populated city of Tampa, selling players to meet payroll because of teams like New York/Boston driving up prices, baseball's status quo, a HORRIBLE team before their success, selling a fan favorite like Carl Crawford, etc., etc., all contributes to the Rays not filling their house.

I was a longtime Expos fan and I see a big parallel here. If you can't show that you're serious about putting a good longterm product in a nice house, the people just won't show.

[rsox]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

A new stadium would certainely help matters but it won't fix everything. The Pirates play in one of, if not the most beautiful park in Baseball and average less than 20 thousand fans per game. Another problem is while the Rays have been a competitve team the past 3 years they were awful the previous 10 years which is probably still in the minds of most casual fans.

Here is what could be the biggest problem of all...every game is on tv. The NFL is dealing with this issue as well as teams cannot sell out home games because more and more people, be it financially or just personal preference, are staying home to watch the games.

[NDAlum]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

I've been to Tropicana and it sucks...I mean it really sucks.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

I don't buy blaming it all on the stadium. The Twins used to play in the Metrodome. That place is an ashtray. You have to piss in a trough and there are basically no modern amenities.

But I can tell you that the place would be full and rocking (in any economy, btw) for any important game down the stretch. Especially one like the CC/Price game where the Rays only filled 3/4 of the stadium. And this is only two years after they were in the World Series!

Say all you want about the facility. A good fan base would watch their team play in the city landfill if they were really loyal. So Rays fan can't complain about his owner cutting payroll when he doesn't show up for the games.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Yankees-Mets
Diamondbacks-Yankees
Angels-Giants
Marlins-Yankees
Red Sox-Cardinals
White Sox-Astros
Cardinals-Tigers
Red Sox-Rockies
Phillies-Rays
Yankees-Phillies

And how many teams are there more than once, next to Yankees/Sox? The Phillies. The Cardinals. Neither of which are really "small market". Better yet, how many of those teams even made the AL/NL CS in multiple years during this stretch? Made the playoffs?

You judge it by playoff berths, not the World Series. Hell, the Marlins go to a WS here and there, then they tear their team apart and don't challenge again for another decade. The Yankees buy playoff berths, cash money.


I'm fully aware of the problems surrounding the Rays, and why fans don't attend their games. I can agree somewhat. But in a true sports city, fans are going to attend. Florida is just a poor market.

My problem here is that owners simply give up. They're not even going to TRY and compete with the Yankees, and who can blame them? What's the return going to be if it's not going to be a sellout every week like in NY, Boston, Chicago, etc.. It's not like it's just the Rays doing this, other franchises just don't even want to bother trying to match an endless payroll to maybe get a playoff spot. It's getting to the point that before the season even begins, you can rule out half the MLB from contention, and actually be dead on with those predictions. That's messed up. That's not even a sport.

[Bubba_Zanetti]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

I don't buy blaming it all on the stadium. The Twins used to play in the Metrodome. That place is an ashtray. You have to piss in a trough and there are basically no modern amenities.

But I can tell you that the place would be full and rocking (in any economy, btw) for any important game down the stretch. Especially one like the CC/Price game where the Rays only filled 3/4 of the stadium. And this is only two years after they were in the World Series!

Say all you want about the facility. A good fan base would watch their team play in the city landfill if they were really loyal. So Rays fan can't complain about his owner cutting payroll when he doesn't show up for the games.

Baseball economics isn't just about putting fannies in the seats anymore and to think that it is is naive . It's about TV deals, market size, revenue sharing, merchandise sales, owner intentions, lack of a salary cap, overpriced spending on players, the publics perception of baseball (steroids) etc., etc. I saw an interview with the Rays GM in the offseason and he pretty much said that is how they've got to do business -- develop young players and utilize the window of oppurtunity with them much like they have now. They can't afford to keep a player like Crawford when they know another team is going to outbid them. It's a business and a good buniness does not loss money. They struck a good deal with Longoria but will probably loss him too down the road. You can hardly build a fan base that way.

Ultimately, don't blame the Rays fans (or lack thereof), blame baseball's status quo.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

I don't buy blaming it all on the stadium. The Twins used to play in the Metrodome. That place is an ashtray. You have to piss in a trough and there are basically no modern amenities.

But I can tell you that the place would be full and rocking (in any economy, btw) for any important game down the stretch. Especially one like the CC/Price game where the Rays only filled 3/4 of the stadium. And this is only two years after they were in the World Series!

Say all you want about the facility. A good fan base would watch their team play in the city landfill if they were really loyal. So Rays fan can't complain about his owner cutting payroll when he doesn't show up for the games.

Again, it's not just the facility, but the location of the facility. I never went to the Metrodome, but wasn't it smack in the middle of downtown?

[Dog]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

A good fan base would watch their team play in the city landfill if they were really loyal.

Phillies fans would

[Sportsforever]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Phillies fans would

Hmmm...I think the Phils fans are like others in that they want to watch a winner. When the Phils were at the Vet in the late 1990's/early 2000's they were near the bottom in attendance and the Vet wasn't a landfill

[Dog]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Hmmm...I think the Phils fans are like others in that they want to watch a winner. When the Phils were at the Vet in the late 1990's/early 2000's they were near the bottom in attendance and the Vet wasn't a landfill

True, but as of now I think that Phillies fans would show up to games even if they were losing. Eagles fans would show up even if the Eagles were 0-15

[Speedy]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Eagles fans would show up even if the Eagles were 0-15

I doubt that.

[Bubba_Zanetti]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Again, it's not just the facility, but the location of the facility. I never went to the Metrodome, but wasn't it smack in the middle of downtown?

Very true. Tropicana field is located in a rather poor section of St. Petersburg. The first time I went there I was like WTF.

Relocate the Rays next to Raymond James Stadium or some waterfront real estate and attendance would increase. Again, that would not mean the Rays suddenly become a big market team -- baseball economic would dictate that.

Another thing, tell the Yankees to find another spring training home.

[Chrisksaint]

Re: Rays cutting payroll, despite success?

Pretty sad to look in the stands in when the Ray and Marlins play home games, they have some great players but noone shows up unless they play popular teams.

Tampa just isn't really a baseball town, i don't think a new stadium would help them all too much. The Marlins are getting a new stadium but they aren't helping their cause by moving the stadium further south and into a worst part of town, if they build the stadium more north into Palm Beach County attendance would increase Miami just doesn't care about baseball all that much either only when they played in the world series would they sell out games.