What the Mets must do

[ltw0303cavs]

After listening to the press confrence announcing Jerry and Omar where "relieved" of their duties , a few thoughts.
First, the Mets must rebuild their core because right now it cant win. I am talking a fire sale and a total rebuild. Wright is decent but Reyes is always hurt, Ike Davis might be decent but Castillo is garbage, Beltran is on the decline, Bay was a bust , he got greedy and it cost him cause he should have stayed with the Red Sox. K-Rod is a head case, you had a pitcher in Ollie Perez who put himself before the team, I mean the Mets are years away from winning .Also the manager is way over stressed as to the problem. Twins have had two managers in 25 years and they don’t have near the resources the Mets have, yet they have 6 divisions in the last 9 years. Its not the busts either, the Giants had 180 million wrapped up in two players Zito and Rowand who where almost complete busts, yet they made the playoffs. Why ? Look at the teams in the playoffs, what do they have in common? They know how to draft and develop, its that simple. If you draft well it covers up the mistakes. Phillies, Rays, Twins, Giants, Reds, Rangers, look at their rosters. Their core was drafted not free agents or trades. Danny Valencia, Mauer, Posey and Bumgarner, Jay Bruce, Ryan and Chase, Kinsler and Young. Its not really that hard to figure out. Plus Santana's injury is a lot more serious than people are saying. He is having his capsule in his throwing shoulder repaired..another guy that had that surgery...Mark Prior. Pelfrey, Parnell, Niese, Davis, Wright and Pagan keep, everybody else is expendable. If they keep the core , the Mets will continue to fail that simple. They must get a GM who believes in player development, Forst the assistant GM from Oakland would be a good start.
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[Trevytrev11]

Re: What the Mets must do

They definitely need change. Unfortunately for the fans, rebuilding takes time and while I'm not up to date on their farm system, if it is as depleted as you make it out to be, it will likely be several years before they can compete again, especially in a division with two well run organizations in the Phillies and Braves.

I've always had nothing but respect for the Twins organization. To be competitive for so long in a pretty tough division with a bottom half payroll (prior to this year) is just phenomoninal. It takes solid drafting, solid coaching and being able to get the players to buy into the organizations philosophies and some how they seem to achieve that more than any other organization. Just look at this year, Nathan (11.25M) out all year, Morneau ($15M), out for the pennant race. What other teams could survive with those losses?

However as a fan of a small market team, it is always fantastic to see teams overspend and under achieve.

Fun Fact:

The opening day salaries of the Yankee's: $206,333,389

The opening day salaries of all other 3 AL playoff teams: $224,733,183

The three other teams combined had a salary of only $18.4M more than the Yankee's and averaged $74.9M (36%) of what the Yankee's spent.

So what does the additional $130M get you? One less win than the Rays and one more win than the Twins. It's great to win at all costs, but the efficiency of these other teams is pretty remarkable. To be able to draft, develop and host talent on a consistant basis, IMO, is a thing of beauty.

I'm not trying to knock the Yank's, but really show how well ran some of the organizations are. The crappy part is unfortunately, they build the talent and then can't afford to keep it...as we'll see with the Rays next year, who want to cut their payroll from $70+M to $50+M, which means that Crawford will probably be out and probably end up in NY.

If you are the Met's you got to take a page out of these other organizations books. Build up the farm system for 3,4 or 5 years until you are close to competing and then spend the money on the 2 or 3 key parts.

[SPTO]

Re: What the Mets must do

The Mets need a GM who has a history of building the farm system and getting good young players into said system. I agree that a firesale needs to happen but if that's to be the case the Mets better be prepared to eat a lot of salary as the teams that will be interested aren't going to pay full price on these guys.

They'll also need a young(ish) manager who will be good with the young guys as well as the veterans. If the Mets are smart they'd go after Dave Martinez or Tim Wallach. I just don't know how amenable Mets fans are to a rebuild especially since they've been waiting for things to turn around for a while now.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: What the Mets must do

I just don't know how amenable Mets fans are to a rebuild especially since they've been waiting for things to turn around for a while now.

Good point. Fans of ball clubs in big markets with new stadiums shouldn't have to suffer through re-building.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: What the Mets must do

The Mets already started on the right path, and that was getting Minaya the hell out of there. Manuel wasn't the answer, either.

I think Beltran was already there before Minaya's term, but that one was a bad signing. The guy is a good player when he's there, but he's never really been there since signing that contract. Even when he's there a full season, does he make them that much better? Not really. They made the playoffs one time since he signed. And he's paid a ton of money.

The Mets seem to just go to the "obvious" answers, signing FA's that they think fill holes, but ignoring other glaring issues. They make the playoffs but don't win anything because Tom Glavine is their ace? So they trade for Johan, who's declining, and then sign him to a huge contract. Meanwhile, their bullpen is horrible. So in the off season, they sign the guy with the most saves the year before, and then get another former All-Star closer in Putz, devoting millions to them. How'd that work out? Not too good, since after Johan, their next best pitcher is John Maine. Then there's the Jason Bays, Moises Alou's, Carlos Delgados, Paul Lo Ducas, Oliver Perez's of the Minaya era. He's made some really awful signings/trades. Almost nothing he did actually worked out for them. It just seems like their philosophy was to be the Jr. Yankees. They'd sign the guys that the Yankees didn't sign. But for other teams, is that really the answer? Keep in mind, the Yankees paid 80 million dollars for AJ Burnett to not even be in their playoff rotation.

They had their two franchise guys with Wright/Reyes, yet I think the hype got a little out of control. I'd personally take a Ryan Zimmerman over David Wright, I liked him but I never thought he was an MVP, like so many Mets fans claimed. I didn't think he was going to be the guy to carry the team, he needed support, and the Mets never gave that to him, or Reyes. Reyes when from an offensive phenom to a seemingly average player. Yet the good news is, both of these guys are still young, and Ike Davis seems like he could be a solution at first, and another bat for their lineup, so I would hang onto all three of them. I don't think the answer is to dump half their team for prospects. Wright/Reyes are both still in the top half of players at their positions, and young, and not making too much money. It would make a ton of sense to get rid of Beltran while he still has some value. There's plenty of contenders who would probably give up prospects to get him. Look to a San Fran or someone.

Face the facts, the only way for non-Yankees teams to win is to build from the inside. All of the top FA's are going to NY, period. If you sign the guys who don't go to NY, you're just taking the guys the Yankees don't want, and you're overpaying for them. And that's how you end up having a giant payroll, and no playoffs, like the Mets or Cubs.

[SPTO]

Re: What the Mets must do

Face the facts, the only way for non-Yankees teams to win is to build from the inside. All of the top FA's are going to NY, period. If you sign the guys who don't go to NY, you're just taking the guys the Yankees don't want, and you're overpaying for them. And that's how you end up having a giant payroll, and no playoffs, like the Mets or Cubs.

Good point, I also think the Mets problems the last few years have been thinking they were close to a World Series when most people would tell you they're an okay team that could make noise in the playoffs but they're not TRUE contenders. I have the feeling Minaya and Co. vastly overrated the team much to their detriment.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: What the Mets must do

I know. Ever since that called strike three against Wainwright, their mindset has been "we're one move away" which is partly what I meant in my post. Every off season they just look at what they think "lost" them their previous season, and then they bring in Johan. Or they bring in K-Rod. And they think 1+1= World Series. Yet they haven't really solved anything, and now they just have a mess of a baseball team, with numerous players on huge contracts.

I would say they do have to clean house in some manner. Just from a cost standpoint, how can you put out such a consistently bad to mediocre baseball team with such a high payroll? It doesn't make sense. At least most losing teams are losing without a huge payroll. The Mets, with that payroll, can't afford to lose, especially by how badly they're losing. They haven't been a legit contender since the called third strike, that was years ago.

[rsox]

Re: What the Mets must do

The reason the Mets can't have a fire sale is who is going to take on all of these bad contracts?.
Minaya leaves the Mets with over $100 million in committed payroll and a barron farm system. Trying to sell off the "always injured" the "garbage" and the "headcases" is going to be next to impossible.

Hiring Josh Byrnes is not going to be the answer (he is the one everyone keeps mentioning). Byrnes did nothing to help the Diamondbacks farm system and eventually would hire a A.J. Hinch type or worse...A.J. Hinch. The Mets should have fired Minaya two years ago and they would not be in as bad a shape as they are now.

To Steelcurtain: Beltran was one of Minaya's first signings.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: What the Mets must do

Trying to sell off the "always injured" the "garbage" and the "headcases" is going to be next to impossible.

I know, this isn't going to be easy at all. Most of their expensive players have issues where teams aren't going to want to take them on, whether it be contract, injuries, attitude, or combinations of all of them. That's why I said Beltran makes the most sense, since I can see some teams thinking he'll be a good piece for them, if they're close to contending. It be a risk taking him on, but I think you can weigh the risk/reward aspect, compared to taking on a Johan or K-Rod who both have red flag issues. I doubt anyone would take Johan or K-Rod off their hands. K-Rod is more than likely going to end up with walking papers.

It's going to be difficult no matter what. I never said it would be simple. They're definitely not getting a top prospect for anybody not named Wright or Reyes, and I really wouldn't deal either of them. POSSIBLY Beltran, there are worse trades. The Mets should know, they got Santana at his peak, for Carlos Gomez as the centerpiece.

What's more than likely going to happen is them having to tear the team down and rebuild completely with a new 5 year plan. It's unrealistic to think they can compete again any time soon, especially with the Phillies being such a powerhouse, and the Braves starting to break out too.

To Steelcurtain: Beltran was one of Minaya's first signings.

Ah, okay. I couldn't remember for sure. I just remembered that post season, and saying how I thought any team willing to give him that contract is insane.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: What the Mets must do

The scary thing is right now if you wanted a young core, would you go the Mets or Alvarez, Tabata, McCutchen, Walker. Compare the numbers, plus figure the Bucs will probably draft Anthony Rendon, who is a David Wright clone who would you be more excited about? If I am the Mets, I would look long and hard about Garza. Thats where I would start.

[Jgainsey]

Re: What the Mets must do

I think the Mets are doing just fine.

[Dog]

Re: What the Mets must do

I think the Mets are doing just fine.

Totally agree. I see nothing wrong with the direction they are heading in

[Stroehms]

Re: What the Mets must do

It seems like these huge contracts handed out each winter are coming back to bite them in the rear end.

This is just my opinion but I would personally not pay a Closer/Reliever over $6 million per year. That position is so replaceable, again, in my opinion. Pitching one inning of work, the pitcher should go with his best stuff and not worry too much about pitching to the hitters weakness since he won't face that batter more than once (usually). So, in my opinion, K-Rod was a waste.

If Reyes can't stay Healthy, ship him out. Get what you can while you can.

Same with Beltran.

I think you have to hold on to Bay, despite his struggles, he can hit and he's just 1 year into a long term contract.

[steelcurtain311]

Re: What the Mets must do

The scary thing is right now if you wanted a young core, would you go the Mets or Alvarez, Tabata, McCutchen, Walker. Compare the numbers, plus figure the Bucs will probably draft Anthony Rendon, who is a David Wright clone who would you be more excited about? If I am the Mets, I would look long and hard about Garza. Thats where I would start.

I know, really. Cubs are in the same boat, too. These teams are paying like triple the Pirates payroll, to be nearly as bad as them. That's so absurd. It makes the Pirates look better by comparison, since they're at least not paying people to suck or be on the DL.

This is just my opinion but I would personally not pay a Closer/Reliever over $6 million per year. That position is so replaceable, again, in my opinion. Pitching one inning of work, the pitcher should go with his best stuff and not worry too much about pitching to the hitters weakness since he won't face that batter more than once (usually). So, in my opinion, K-Rod was a waste.

It depends. If I already had my elite closer, like a Nathan, Rivera, Bell, I would give them 6 a year to hold onto them. Just because they're already there, they've already done it for me, my pitching staff and team is behind them, etc.. Would I go out and spend that money on a FA closer? Hell no. K-Rod is the perfect example why. That signing was idiotic from day one, and most people knew it. The Angels, for starters, wanted nothing to do with K-Rod. They let him go and their bullpen didn't miss a beat without him. Because despite his record breaking season, his velocity was dropping, his control was putrid, they knew things we didn't. Most of his saves that season, he was letting like two-three guys on base, and then somehow working his way out of it. Pure luck that he amounted so many saves.