Jon Heyman...what can you say?

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  • Sportsforever
    NL MVP
    • Mar 2005
    • 20368
    #1

    Jon Heyman...what can you say?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/12/20/hall.blyleven/index.html


    I read Jon Heyman's column today on his HOF voting. The majority of it is devoted to why he didn't vote for Blyleven...the only problem is he NEVER gets around to it imo. It's all about how he feels about Blyleven. He cites some numbers, but not the pertinent ones. And then turns around and says Jack Morris belongs in the HOF. Here is a line he used to explain Morris' 3.90 career ERA:

    "Morris has a high lifetime ERA, 3.90. But some of that is due to the 6.19 and 5.60 marks he put up in his final two seasons. And part of it is due to him pitching to the scoreboard, which the very best pitchers could do."

    The bold part just really, really makes me shake my head. I know that numbers aren't the be all, end all, but clearly voters completely disregard numbers when they want to.

    Anyway, I know this has always gone on with the HOF, but reading this just made me shake my head...
    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby
    Tags: None
    • DrJones
      All Star
      • Mar 2003
      • 9109
      #2
      Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

      Originally posted by Sportsforever
      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ven/index.html

      I read Jon Heyman's column today on his HOF voting. The majority of it is devoted to why he didn't vote for Blyleven...the only problem is he NEVER gets around to it imo. It's all about how he feels about Blyleven. He cites some numbers, but not the pertinent ones. And then turns around and says Jack Morris belongs in the HOF. Here is a line he used to explain Morris' 3.90 career ERA:

      "Morris has a high lifetime ERA, 3.90. But some of that is due to the 6.19 and 5.60 marks he put up in his final two seasons. And part of it is due to him pitching to the scoreboard, which the very best pitchers could do."

      The bold part just really, really makes me shake my head. I know that numbers aren't the be all, end all, but clearly voters completely disregard numbers when they want to.

      Anyway, I know this has always gone on with the HOF, but reading this just made me shake my head...
      The funny thing is, Blyleven pitched better "to the score" than Morris did.

      ----

      Courtesy of "The Common Man":

      “In games in which his team scored 0-2 runs, Bert had a 3.35 ERA and a .193 winning percentage. In games that Morris pitched, in which his team scored 0-2 runs, Jack had a 4.00 ERA and a .134 winning percentage. If pitching to the score were really a thing, wouldn’t we expect that Morris’s performance would be better in those situations? Instead, we find that he actually performed worse relative to Blyleven.

      In games in which his team scored 3-5 runs, Bert had an ERA of 3.27 and a .595 winning percentage. Jack had a 3.56 ERA and a .598 winning percentage.

      And in games in which his team scored more than 5 runs, Blyleven had a 3.33 ERA and won .956 of them. When Morris was staked with a lot of runs, he had an ERA of 4.21 and had a .933 winning percentage.

      The only reason Morris has a higher overall winning percentage than Bert is that Morris’ teams scored 3 or more runs in 74% of his starts. Bert’s teams scored 3 or more runs in 66.5% of his. But Blyleven actually performed better than Morris in low scoring games, regardless of whether you believe pitching to the score is a real thing.”

      ----

      I'd have more respect for Heyman if he just came out and said, "Look, I'm voting for Jack Morris because of '91 Game 7 and his mustache. If you don't like it, too bad. The end."
      Originally posted by Thrash13
      Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
      Originally posted by slickdtc
      DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
      Originally posted by Kipnis22
      yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

        Comment

        • snepp
          We'll waste him too.
          • Apr 2003
          • 10007
          #3
          Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

          Yes, Heyman is a ****ing clueless idiot.
          Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

            Comment

            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046
              #4
              Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

              The voters for the HOF have almost always used some kind of agenda in making their votes. At least it's the most transparent of all the Halls when it comes to knowing the voting results and the reasons for them.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                Comment

                • snepp
                  We'll waste him too.
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 10007
                  #5
                  Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

                  Originally posted by SPTO
                  The voters for the HOF have almost always used some kind of agenda in making their votes.
                  Just one of many reasons to change who is allowed to become a voter.


                  At least it's the most transparent of all the Halls when it comes to knowing the voting results and the reasons for them.
                  Very true.
                  Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                    Comment

                    • ImTellinTim
                      YNWA
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 33028
                      #6
                      Re: Jon Heyman...what can you say?

                      I'm going to print that article out and use it as toilet paper.

                        Comment

                        • Sportsforever
                          NL MVP
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 20368
                          #7
                          Re: Jon Heyman...what can you say?

                          Originally posted by ImTellinTim
                          I'm going to print that article out and use it as toilet paper.
                          Seriously. I mean, I read the opening paragraph and thought "wow, I am glad to see Heyman is going to explain himself. I can't wait to see the evidence he uses." As I continued reading it became clear it was a "I believe Blyleven should be out, so I vote no" situation. I say this with all seriousness: I honestly believe I could do a better job than Heyman and a host of other writers on this voting stuff. I know it's difficult, but I would at least use some logical, rational arguments for my votes/non votes and not some "you had to be there" argument.
                          "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                            Comment

                            • EnigmaNemesis
                              Animal Liberation
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 12216
                              #8
                              Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

                              Originally posted by SPTO
                              The voters for the HOF have almost always used some kind of agenda in making their votes. At least it's the most transparent of all the Halls when it comes to knowing the voting results and the reasons for them.
                              Most are on a power trip, and have a holier than thou attitude.

                              It just plain stinks.
                              Ⓥ Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                                Comment

                                • Jgainsey
                                  I can't feel it
                                  • Mar 2007
                                  • 3362
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by ImTellinTim
                                  I'm going to print that article out and use it as toilet paper.
                                  That really isn't being fair...






















                                  To your ***.
                                  Now, more than ever

                                    Comment

                                    • EnigmaNemesis
                                      Animal Liberation
                                      • Apr 2006
                                      • 12216
                                      #10
                                      Re: Jon Heyman...what can you say?

                                      To add, he is doing what he set out to do, and as a writer, which most who ride the waves of being sensational at times, is creating controversy. He knows he will rub the majority of fans the wrong way!
                                      Ⓥ Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                                        Comment

                                        • SPTO
                                          binging
                                          • Feb 2003
                                          • 68046
                                          #11
                                          Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

                                          Originally posted by EnigmaNemesis
                                          Most are on a power trip, and have a holier than thou attitude.

                                          It just plain stinks.
                                          Which is why one prominent writer in Toronto revoked his his right to vote for the Hall of Fame. Of course his other rationale was that baseball should determine the whole steroid era players as being eligible or not rather than making the writers decide that for themselves.

                                          Either way, I applaud him for getting out of that Old Boys' Network.
                                          Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                                          "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                                            Comment

                                            • EnigmaNemesis
                                              Animal Liberation
                                              • Apr 2006
                                              • 12216
                                              #12
                                              Re: Joh Heyman...what can you say?

                                              Originally posted by SPTO
                                              Which is why one prominent writer in Toronto revoked his his right to vote for the Hall of Fame. Of course his other rationale was that baseball should determine the whole steroid era players as being eligible or not rather than making the writers decide that for themselves.

                                              Either way, I applaud him for getting out of that Old Boys' Network.
                                              Indeed. And I am inclined to agree with him.
                                              Ⓥ Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                                                Comment

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