who is the greatest player ever?

[Birdsonbat]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I agree. If Mantle was healthy, he would have been hands down. But I will say Willie Mays for having to face all those awesome pitchers of his time.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'll just have to go with Bonds... and no one can rat on what I just said... I mean, I go with Bonds when he retires, because he's just not done yet.

Best hitter for now until Bonds retires... Ted Williams.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'll just have to go with Bonds... and no one can rat on what I just said... I mean, I go with Bonds when he retires, because he's just not done yet.

Best hitter for now until Bonds retires... Ted Williams.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'll just have to go with Bonds... and no one can rat on what I just said... I mean, I go with Bonds when he retires, because he's just not done yet.

Best hitter for now until Bonds retires... Ted Williams.

[mjb2124]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'm going to have to go with Willie Mays. I didn't realize he lost 2 years of his career to the military until today. This weeks Sports Illustrated had an article about him on the last page.

It's really difficult to name the greatest player ever though. It could be anyone from Ruth to Mays to Williams to Aaron to Gibson to Bonds etc...

[mjb2124]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'm going to have to go with Willie Mays. I didn't realize he lost 2 years of his career to the military until today. This weeks Sports Illustrated had an article about him on the last page.

It's really difficult to name the greatest player ever though. It could be anyone from Ruth to Mays to Williams to Aaron to Gibson to Bonds etc...

[mjb2124]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

I'm going to have to go with Willie Mays. I didn't realize he lost 2 years of his career to the military until today. This weeks Sports Illustrated had an article about him on the last page.

It's really difficult to name the greatest player ever though. It could be anyone from Ruth to Mays to Williams to Aaron to Gibson to Bonds etc...

[dce1228]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
none of those guys are the greatest players. The Greatest player and the first black person that would have crossed over is "THE BLACK" Babe Ruth, "The Phenom" Josh Gibson

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

most negro league experts and players alike think Oscar Charleston was better than Gibson, as he was considered better defensively and on the basepaths while hitting for the batting average and homers like Gibson.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
joeboo said:
I don't doubt Gibson's greatness because he was. However, I find it hard to call him the greatest ballplayer ever when we don't have any legitimate stats for him (at least not that I know of).

I've seen these numbers tossed around:

.391 Career BA in Negro Leagues, 962 HR in 17 seasons

But I've never seen anything that breaks down his numbers by season. If these are legit, then I tend to agree. I'd also be very interested to see stats if anyone has a good link to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This is ethnocentric. The negro leagues shouldn't be held up to the standard of major league baseball. The stats will never exist to solve this dilemma, but personally I think it's rational to assume that the best negro league players and major league players before Jackie Robinson were contemporaries in skill much like they are today, or like Mays and Mantle were, Andre Dawson and Gary Carter, Bonds and McGwire... etc.

While many baseball people WHO WOULD KNOW note there were players just as talented as Ruth, such as Mays, Ted Williams, Charleston, Cobb...etc, Ruth was a truly ingenious player for his time and dominated in a way no other player in history has... although Bonds certainly is reminiscent of that.

[dce1228]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
none of those guys are the greatest players. The Greatest player and the first black person that would have crossed over is "THE BLACK" Babe Ruth, "The Phenom" Josh Gibson

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

most negro league experts and players alike think Oscar Charleston was better than Gibson, as he was considered better defensively and on the basepaths while hitting for the batting average and homers like Gibson.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
joeboo said:
I don't doubt Gibson's greatness because he was. However, I find it hard to call him the greatest ballplayer ever when we don't have any legitimate stats for him (at least not that I know of).

I've seen these numbers tossed around:

.391 Career BA in Negro Leagues, 962 HR in 17 seasons

But I've never seen anything that breaks down his numbers by season. If these are legit, then I tend to agree. I'd also be very interested to see stats if anyone has a good link to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This is ethnocentric. The negro leagues shouldn't be held up to the standard of major league baseball. The stats will never exist to solve this dilemma, but personally I think it's rational to assume that the best negro league players and major league players before Jackie Robinson were contemporaries in skill much like they are today, or like Mays and Mantle were, Andre Dawson and Gary Carter, Bonds and McGwire... etc.

While many baseball people WHO WOULD KNOW note there were players just as talented as Ruth, such as Mays, Ted Williams, Charleston, Cobb...etc, Ruth was a truly ingenious player for his time and dominated in a way no other player in history has... although Bonds certainly is reminiscent of that.

[dce1228]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
TheTruth916 said:
none of those guys are the greatest players. The Greatest player and the first black person that would have crossed over is "THE BLACK" Babe Ruth, "The Phenom" Josh Gibson

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

most negro league experts and players alike think Oscar Charleston was better than Gibson, as he was considered better defensively and on the basepaths while hitting for the batting average and homers like Gibson.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
joeboo said:
I don't doubt Gibson's greatness because he was. However, I find it hard to call him the greatest ballplayer ever when we don't have any legitimate stats for him (at least not that I know of).

I've seen these numbers tossed around:

.391 Career BA in Negro Leagues, 962 HR in 17 seasons

But I've never seen anything that breaks down his numbers by season. If these are legit, then I tend to agree. I'd also be very interested to see stats if anyone has a good link to them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

This is ethnocentric. The negro leagues shouldn't be held up to the standard of major league baseball. The stats will never exist to solve this dilemma, but personally I think it's rational to assume that the best negro league players and major league players before Jackie Robinson were contemporaries in skill much like they are today, or like Mays and Mantle were, Andre Dawson and Gary Carter, Bonds and McGwire... etc.

While many baseball people WHO WOULD KNOW note there were players just as talented as Ruth, such as Mays, Ted Williams, Charleston, Cobb...etc, Ruth was a truly ingenious player for his time and dominated in a way no other player in history has... although Bonds certainly is reminiscent of that.

[rsox]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

This is one of those questions that can never really be answerd, the "greates player of all time", for all we know the greatest player ever has never even played a game yet,
however,
i think you have to look at the era that the player played in, for instance,
Babe Ruth is right now considered the greatest, and he should be, he played in the deaed ball era when no one was hitting homeruns, plus the ball parks were huge,
but...
then you have Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams, two of the best hitters to play the game, and not just for power they could really hit, and were both 100 times better defensivly the Ruth,
but...
then you have Willie Mays who could hit, run, field, he did it all,
but...
then theres Barry Bonds who when it's all said and done may be regarded as the "greatest" player ever.

[rsox]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

This is one of those questions that can never really be answerd, the "greates player of all time", for all we know the greatest player ever has never even played a game yet,
however,
i think you have to look at the era that the player played in, for instance,
Babe Ruth is right now considered the greatest, and he should be, he played in the deaed ball era when no one was hitting homeruns, plus the ball parks were huge,
but...
then you have Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams, two of the best hitters to play the game, and not just for power they could really hit, and were both 100 times better defensivly the Ruth,
but...
then you have Willie Mays who could hit, run, field, he did it all,
but...
then theres Barry Bonds who when it's all said and done may be regarded as the "greatest" player ever.

[rsox]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

This is one of those questions that can never really be answerd, the "greates player of all time", for all we know the greatest player ever has never even played a game yet,
however,
i think you have to look at the era that the player played in, for instance,
Babe Ruth is right now considered the greatest, and he should be, he played in the deaed ball era when no one was hitting homeruns, plus the ball parks were huge,
but...
then you have Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams, two of the best hitters to play the game, and not just for power they could really hit, and were both 100 times better defensivly the Ruth,
but...
then you have Willie Mays who could hit, run, field, he did it all,
but...
then theres Barry Bonds who when it's all said and done may be regarded as the "greatest" player ever.

[thecomic]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

This is ethnocentric. The negro leagues shouldn't be held up to the standard of major league baseball. The stats will never exist to solve this dilemma, but personally I think it's rational to assume that the best negro league players and major league players before Jackie Robinson were contemporaries in skill much like they are today, or like Mays and Mantle were, Andre Dawson and Gary Carter, Bonds and McGwire... etc.

While many baseball people WHO WOULD KNOW note there were players just as talented as Ruth, such as Mays, Ted Williams, Charleston, Cobb...etc, Ruth was a truly ingenious player for his time and dominated in a way no other player in history has... although Bonds certainly is reminiscent of that.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You have a good point here, and another good underlying point- any player that played prior to the breaking of the color line (MLB or Negro Leagues) played against diluted competition.

Todays players are the greatest, because they come, not only from all races, but also from all over the world. The best of the best. That has only been the case in recent years.

[thecomic]

Re: who is the greatest player ever?

This is ethnocentric. The negro leagues shouldn't be held up to the standard of major league baseball. The stats will never exist to solve this dilemma, but personally I think it's rational to assume that the best negro league players and major league players before Jackie Robinson were contemporaries in skill much like they are today, or like Mays and Mantle were, Andre Dawson and Gary Carter, Bonds and McGwire... etc.

While many baseball people WHO WOULD KNOW note there were players just as talented as Ruth, such as Mays, Ted Williams, Charleston, Cobb...etc, Ruth was a truly ingenious player for his time and dominated in a way no other player in history has... although Bonds certainly is reminiscent of that.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You have a good point here, and another good underlying point- any player that played prior to the breaking of the color line (MLB or Negro Leagues) played against diluted competition.

Todays players are the greatest, because they come, not only from all races, but also from all over the world. The best of the best. That has only been the case in recent years.