Advanced Stats/Metrics

[dsallupinyaarea]

I'm new to the advanced statistics stuff. Which stats most accurately tell who the best offensive/defensive players are? Which ones tell you who the best pitchers are?

P.S. - I ran a search and couldn't find this topic anywhere (pretty surprised). If it's been discussed can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you.

[Noxage]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Offense: wOBA
Defense: UZR (large sample sizes needed)
Pitching: FIP

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Offense: wOBA
Defense: UZR (large sample sizes needed)
Pitching: FIP

What is wOBA?

[snepp]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Head over to Fangraphs, visit the glossary.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Head over to Fangraphs, visit the glossary.

Didn't know about this site. Thanks.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

What is wOBA?

Weighted On-Base Average.

I tend to think of it as OPS on steroids.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

I also like wOBA because it's an easy stat to understand or, even if you don't understand it, basically you can look at it and think of it on terms of OBP.

Anyway: What does everyone think about defensive metrics? I'm of the opinion that defensive metrics are based upon things which are entirely subjective and thus not a good tool to use for defense.

Anyone willing to defend defensive metrics like UZR?

[Sportsforever]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

I also like wOBA because it's an easy stat to understand or, even if you don't understand it, basically you can look at it and think of it on terms of OBP.

Anyway: What does everyone think about defensive metrics? I'm of the opinion that defensive metrics are based upon things which are entirely subjective and thus not a good tool to use for defense.

Anyone willing to defend defensive metrics like UZR?

Any advanced defensive metric, such as UZR, is much less subjective than the alternative. I hear people say what you just stated and then turn around and say "my eyes tell me all I need to know." Okay, so you saw EVERY play that player made? No, defensive metrics aren't perfect, but they are much farther along than we were 5 years ago!

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Any advanced defensive metric, such as UZR, is much less subjective than the alternative. I hear people say what you just stated and then turn around and say "my eyes tell me all I need to know." Okay, so you saw EVERY play that player made? No, defensive metrics aren't perfect, but they are much farther along than we were 5 years ago!

Yes and no.

I do like that we have something that is concrete over just saying "i've seen the guy play!"

However, there is still a large part of subjectiveness in it and not strict empirical data. And there never will be.

I think defensive statistics should be used in very small dosages, but I wouldn't use them to definitively say "this guy is a good fielder based on UZR" either.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Yes and no.

I do like that we have something that is concrete over just saying "i've seen the guy play!"

However, there is still a large part of subjectiveness in it and not strict empirical data. And there never will be.

I think defensive statistics should be used in very small dosages, but I wouldn't use them to definitively say "this guy is a good fielder based on UZR" either.

Context is everything. No, you can't grab a player's UZR from this past week and say "he's a great/poor fielder!", just like you wouldn't look at a player's OPS from this past week and say he's a great/poor hitter. It takes approximately 3 years of data to get a definitive read on a player's UZR, but a one year sample can be useful. I also think that the defensive metrics should be used together. For example, looking at UZR, +/-, ZR, RF, etc can all give you a pretty good picture of a player's value.

[Sandman42]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

I think if you have multiple systems telling you the same thing then its generally good to evaluate that players defensive ability. There are still the cases where UZR will like a guy while +/- or Total Zone or DRS will say he's a poor fielder. Those cases are what puts doubt into all the defensive statistic.

There's also some cases with ballparks wonking up the data, most namely LF in Fenway thanks to the Monster, and the entire Pittsburgh outfield which consistently gives out weird UZR's.

[snepp]

Re: Advanced Stats/Metrics

Advanced defensive measures are fine, if they're used appropriately. The biggest problem with them is that they are very easy to misuse, much more so than the typical offensive stats.