Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • 12
    Banned
    • Feb 2010
    • 4458

    #1

    Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

    When steroids first starting rearing their ugly head, I was pretty stunned. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and baseball was my favorite sport. It was pretty sad to see all of these allegations slung toward all of these great players.

    I also got pretty angry and wanted all these "cheaters" to be banished from the game. I'd agree with people who said that these players sacrificed the sanctity of the game and their legacies should reflect as much.

    Over time, I've found that I just care as much anymore. Steroid use was probably more rampant than we believe. It was as much a part of baseball's culture as sunflower seeds and chewing gum over the past 20 years. It doesn't make it right, but there comes a time when you either choose to walk away from the game as a fan or you accept the fact that it had, unfortunately, become a part of the game.

    A good example of the two sides is my brother and I. He grew up loving baseball with a passion, and we'd go to Mariner games at least a couple of times per year. We talked about baseball all of the time. Over the past seven or so years, he has become so fed up with the game that he refuses to watch it anymore. If we're watching a game at a family function, he will simply walk out and go do something else. That might be extreme to some people, but it's how he's chosen to deal with it.

    I don't need to outline all of his reasons, but it's not really just the steroids issue with him, though that plays a huge part.

    Me? I still love the game. I hate that steroids have had such a negative effect, but with me, I haven't let it dilute my love for the game. PEDs have been in the game for a lot longer than most of us probably realize. There has probably always been something available to give players an edge. How far back do people want to go? How deep do we want to dig? The game has never been "pure" at this level. For some players, it has been... They've done everything by the book. To them, I tip my hat. But overall, if you want to watch "pure" baseball, go watch Little League. That sounds harsh, but I believe it to be true.

    There are so many debates on how to treat players who have been caught. Do voters let them in the HoF, if their numbers are deserving? If so, how do we denote that they were either caught via a positive test, or heavily suspected of steroid use?

    With me, the bottom line is that baseball is the best game on earth and I have chose to not let the steroid issues destroy my love for the game. I am not going to judge players who used. I wish they didn't, but maybe they had their reasons. Like I said, it was a part of baseball's fiber at the Major League level over the past 20 years. There's no use in denying that.

    I can teach my son values about the game in which I think are important. I can tell him and educate him on the problems of drug use. I can take an active role in making sure that he understands that steroid use is simply not worth it.

    I've gone from pissed, to accepting a hard reality with this game. In the end, even though I've hated that the "juice" has been a part of the game, I won't let it take me away from the game that I love.

    Baseball in and of itself, is pure. It's not pure when money and other things get involved, and in my opinion it never has been.
  • TheMatrix31
    RF
    • Jul 2002
    • 52919

    #2
    Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

    Never really cared. Everyone's human. At least it's not like the NBA (at least that we know of) where corrupted officials are directly manipulating results of games.

    Comment

    • Knight165
      *ll St*r
      • Feb 2003
      • 24964

      #3
      Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

      Originally posted by Apostle
      When steroids first starting rearing their ugly head, I was pretty stunned. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and baseball was my favorite sport. It was pretty sad to see all of these allegations slung toward all of these great players.

      I also got pretty angry and wanted all these "cheaters" to be banished from the game. I'd agree with people who said that these players sacrificed the sanctity of the game and their legacies should reflect as much.

      Over time, I've found that I just care as much anymore. Steroid use was probably more rampant than we believe. It was as much a part of baseball's culture as sunflower seeds and chewing gum over the past 20 years. It doesn't make it right, but there comes a time when you either choose to walk away from the game as a fan or you accept the fact that it had, unfortunately, become a part of the game.

      A good example of the two sides is my brother and I. He grew up loving baseball with a passion, and we'd go to Mariner games at least a couple of times per year. We talked about baseball all of the time. Over the past seven or so years, he has become so fed up with the game that he refuses to watch it anymore. If we're watching a game at a family function, he will simply walk out and go do something else. That might be extreme to some people, but it's how he's chosen to deal with it.

      I don't need to outline all of his reasons, but it's not really just the steroids issue with him, though that plays a huge part.

      Me? I still love the game. I hate that steroids have had such a negative effect, but with me, I haven't let it dilute my love for the game. PEDs have been in the game for a lot longer than most of us probably realize. There has probably always been something available to give players an edge. How far back do people want to go? How deep do we want to dig? The game has never been "pure" at this level. For some players, it has been... They've done everything by the book. To them, I tip my hat. But overall, if you want to watch "pure" baseball, go watch Little League. That sounds harsh, but I believe it to be true.

      There are so many debates on how to treat players who have been caught. Do voters let them in the HoF, if their numbers are deserving? If so, how do we denote that they were either caught via a positive test, or heavily suspected of steroid use?

      With me, the bottom line is that baseball is the best game on earth and I have chose to not let the steroid issues destroy my love for the game. I am not going to judge players who used. I wish they didn't, but maybe they had their reasons. Like I said, it was a part of baseball's fiber at the Major League level over the past 20 years. There's no use in denying that.

      I can teach my son values about the game in which I think are important. I can tell him and educate him on the problems of drug use. I can take an active role in making sure that he understands that steroid use is simply not worth it.

      I've gone from pissed, to accepting a hard reality with this game. In the end, even though I've hated that the "juice" has been a part of the game, I won't let it take me away from the game that I love.

      Baseball in and of itself, is pure. It's not pure when money and other things get involved, and in my opinion it never has been.
      They wore you down.
      But that's the norm with everything......something that should not be acceptable either creeps in or gets turned on full blast.....enough people start saying "live and let live" and it eventually becomes ...O.K.

      I'm not even bothering to post in the other steroids thread as some of the arguments and views are so ridiculous and quite frankly laughable that I'd rather shove my head through a windshield than try and argue against the points(it's obvious they cannot be moved)



      M.K.
      Knight165
      All gave some. Some gave all. 343

      Comment

      • Chip Douglass
        Hall Of Fame
        • Dec 2005
        • 12256

        #4
        Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

        Baseball has never been "pure". In fact, the game right now is probably purer than ever.

        You had entire teams conspiring with mobsters to throw championships in the deadball era, teams colluding to keep out African-American players until the mid-1960s, and a rampant drug problem from the 70s-mid 80s, with a fairly large number of players using cocaine, that led to even harsher penalties than the steroid-related offenses.

        The steroid era is harmless when looked at in context.
        I write things on the Internet.

        Comment

        • 12
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 4458

          #5
          Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

          Originally posted by Knight165
          They wore you down.
          But that's the norm with everything......something that should not be acceptable either creeps in or gets turned on full blast.....enough people start saying "live and let live" and it eventually becomes ...O.K.

          I'm not even bothering to post in the other steroids thread as some of the arguments and views are so ridiculous and quite frankly laughable that I'd rather shove my head through a windshield than try and argue against the points(it's obvious they cannot be moved)



          M.K.
          Knight165
          I know what you're saying, Knight... But, I've never felt steroid use was OK. To me, there's just no reason in letting it get me down. I've gotten involved in heated arguments with people on boards and like you said, it becomes laughable. No one on either side will convince someone on the other side that their argument and opinions are right. It becomes a waste of time.

          I still feel players should receive harsh punishments if caught... I have no problem with the voters keeping players who have been confirmed as users out of the Hall. Eventually though, something is going to have to give. Once the first juicer gets in, the chips will start falling.

          Comment

          • 12
            Banned
            • Feb 2010
            • 4458

            #6
            Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

            Originally posted by Chip Douglass
            Baseball has never been "pure". In fact, the game right now is probably purer than ever.

            You had entire teams conspiring with mobsters to throw championships in the deadball era, teams colluding to keep out African-American players until the mid-1960s, and a rampant drug problem from the 70s-mid 80s, with a fairly large number of players using cocaine, that led to even harsher penalties than the steroid-related offenses.

            The steroid era is harmless when looked at in context.
            Good points and your first sentence is the thesis to my whole outlook on it.

            I guess in growing up, I've accepted that baseball, at the MLB level, has never been entirely pure.

            It doesn't mean we can think it's okay or acceptable, but it does mean each person will have to make a choice on whether they want to let it ruin the game for them.

            Comment

            • Chip Douglass
              Hall Of Fame
              • Dec 2005
              • 12256

              #7
              Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

              Granted, the only thing leading people to believe that steroids are "impure" is the chemicals = EVIL!!! paradigm that exists today.

              I'm not sure why steroids are singled out for punishment/public scorn when it's one of literally 5234234234 different ways to enhance your performance.

              Flame away.

              Spoiler
              Last edited by Chip Douglass; 04-13-2011, 07:30 PM.
              I write things on the Internet.

              Comment

              • Sandman42
                Hall Of Fame
                • Aug 2004
                • 15186

                #8
                Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                Could care less about it. Players are going to do everything they can to gain an edge. The dumb ones will get caught. Don't know why its just the 90's onwards that gets criticized though. With how rampant steroid use was in the NFL during the 70's and 80's, I'd be surprised if a good amount of players did it back then also.
                Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                Comment

                • travis72
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 1491

                  #9
                  Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                  Originally posted by Apostle
                  When steroids first starting rearing their ugly head, I was pretty stunned. I was 18 or 19 at the time, and baseball was my favorite sport. It was pretty sad to see all of these allegations slung toward all of these great players.

                  I also got pretty angry and wanted all these "cheaters" to be banished from the game. I'd agree with people who said that these players sacrificed the sanctity of the game and their legacies should reflect as much.

                  Over time, I've found that I just care as much anymore. Steroid use was probably more rampant than we believe. It was as much a part of baseball's culture as sunflower seeds and chewing gum over the past 20 years. It doesn't make it right, but there comes a time when you either choose to walk away from the game as a fan or you accept the fact that it had, unfortunately, become a part of the game.

                  A good example of the two sides is my brother and I. He grew up loving baseball with a passion, and we'd go to Mariner games at least a couple of times per year. We talked about baseball all of the time. Over the past seven or so years, he has become so fed up with the game that he refuses to watch it anymore. If we're watching a game at a family function, he will simply walk out and go do something else. That might be extreme to some people, but it's how he's chosen to deal with it.

                  I don't need to outline all of his reasons, but it's not really just the steroids issue with him, though that plays a huge part.

                  Me? I still love the game. I hate that steroids have had such a negative effect, but with me, I haven't let it dilute my love for the game. PEDs have been in the game for a lot longer than most of us probably realize. There has probably always been something available to give players an edge. How far back do people want to go? How deep do we want to dig? The game has never been "pure" at this level. For some players, it has been... They've done everything by the book. To them, I tip my hat. But overall, if you want to watch "pure" baseball, go watch Little League. That sounds harsh, but I believe it to be true.

                  There are so many debates on how to treat players who have been caught. Do voters let them in the HoF, if their numbers are deserving? If so, how do we denote that they were either caught via a positive test, or heavily suspected of steroid use?

                  With me, the bottom line is that baseball is the best game on earth and I have chose to not let the steroid issues destroy my love for the game. I am not going to judge players who used. I wish they didn't, but maybe they had their reasons. Like I said, it was a part of baseball's fiber at the Major League level over the past 20 years. There's no use in denying that.

                  I can teach my son values about the game in which I think are important. I can tell him and educate him on the problems of drug use. I can take an active role in making sure that he understands that steroid use is simply not worth it.

                  I've gone from pissed, to accepting a hard reality with this game. In the end, even though I've hated that the "juice" has been a part of the game, I won't let it take me away from the game that I love.

                  Baseball in and of itself, is pure. It's not pure when money and other things get involved, and in my opinion it never has been.
                  Same here, I never let the steriod issue detract from my love for the game. I have watch the Little league WS as long as I can remember as and adult. I really enjoy watching kids play for the love of the game and not worrying about money. I wish college baseball was on TV more as I would probably watch it more than MLB unless it my Reds of course.lol.

                  Comment

                  • Knight165
                    *ll St*r
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 24964

                    #10
                    Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                    Purer now than ever. YIKES.


                    (that's Kool-Aid by the way)

                    M.K.
                    Knight165
                    All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                    Comment

                    • travis72
                      Banned
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 1491

                      #11
                      Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                      Originally posted by Knight165
                      Purer now than ever. YIKES.


                      (that's Kool-Aid by the way)

                      M.K.
                      Knight165
                      LOL, thats what I was thinking as well.

                      Comment

                      • Sportsforever
                        NL MVP
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 20368

                        #12
                        Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                        Originally posted by Knight165
                        Purer now than ever. YIKES.


                        (that's Kool-Aid by the way)

                        M.K.
                        Knight165
                        Knight,

                        I think we agree on a lot of things...I LOVE the history of baseball (heck, I spend most of time playing OLD seasons), but I don't know how you can honestly say the game was "purer" in those old days.

                        Yes, less money was involved (still a lot for the time, however). No, players didn't jump from team to team (they would have if they could). We like to always think of the old days as better, but I have read enough from players in the 60's/70's to know that steroids were being used along with anything else a player could get his hands on to better his performance.

                        Seriously, in the history of baseball we have had players take money from gamblers to throw the World Series, we have had an entire race of players BANNED from playing the game, we have had teams/players cheat in every conceivable fashion, and you had a media that portrayed the players as saints and heroes. I love reading old baseball digests (they are available for FREE going back to 1945) and I am amazed to read about the same issues we discuss today (pitchers are wimps, players just play for money, the game is losing popularity, the owners are killing the game, etc).

                        I ask you to tell me how YOU think the game was purer...don't just state that it is, but explain it please.
                        "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                        Comment

                        • BatsareBugs
                          LVP
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 12553

                          #13
                          Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                          I really don't consider the "purity" of the sport to be a factor in my interest in the sport. My interest stems on the presence of having a home team (which is why my interest for other sports such as Hockey, Soccer, and Basketball aren't as high because we don't have any teams in any of the professional levels here in San Diego). In my opinion every sport has it's "cheaters" and problems. Football for instance has had big name players get busted for violating its drug policy, but the sport hasn't been scrutinized like Baseball. Not to mention the current deadlock between the Owners and the Players Union. The NCAA Football problem in my opinion is the uncertain future for non-BCS conferences and the fact that some programs may eventually be out of luck because of the BCS.

                          I don't like hearing about players using drugs to enhance their game, but I accept the fact that a majority of players have probably used it. I don't care that Nevin and Klesko were probably shooting up in 2001/2002 when I was getting into baseball. There are probably a ton of people who did the same that weren't caught and it's not just position players too.

                          I love the sport enough to not let things like this turn me off. Baseball can always improve, but I care more about the game-by-game activities moreso than the big picture.

                          Comment

                          • Dog
                            aka jnes12/JNes__
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 11846

                            #14
                            Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                            No it hasn't <url></url>
                            Eagles | Phillies | Sixers | Flyers
                            PSN: JNes__

                            Comment

                            • travis72
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 1491

                              #15
                              Re: Has your opinion changed on the purity of the game?

                              Originally posted by Rag3vsW0rld
                              I really don't consider the "purity" of the sport to be a factor in my interest in the sport. My interest stems on the presence of having a home team (which is why my interest for other sports such as Hockey, Soccer, and Basketball aren't as high because we don't have any teams in any of the professional levels here in San Diego). In my opinion every sport has it's "cheaters" and problems. Football for instance has had big name players get busted for violating its drug policy, but the sport hasn't been scrutinized like Baseball. Not to mention the current deadlock between the Owners and the Players Union. The NCAA Football problem in my opinion is the uncertain future for non-BCS conferences and the fact that some programs may eventually be out of luck because of the BCS.

                              I don't like hearing about players using drugs to enhance their game, but I accept the fact that a majority of players have probably used it. I don't care that Nevin and Klesko were probably shooting up in 2001/2002 when I was getting into baseball. There are probably a ton of people who did the same that weren't caught and it's not just position players too.

                              I love the sport enough to not let things like this turn me off. Baseball can always improve, but I care more about the game-by-game activities moreso than the big picture.
                              Baseball has been the poster child for steriods unfortunaltey. When football probably should have been. Baseball history and hallowed stats I think is the main reason it has been single out instead of other sports. baseball is so stat based and you hardley ever hear the arguement in baseball that well that guy never won a WS so he might not be considered good enough. Where as in basketball and more so football if you a good and have won championships your prtty much a lock for there HOF. I get so tired of hearing analyst and people talk about a QB needing to win a Super Bowl or 2 to be considered won of the greats when football is the ultimate team sport.
                              IMO what makes the baseball HOF the most hallowed of them all is it is based on stats and how you played the game and not just about winning the WS.

                              Comment

                              Working...