MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

[lonewolf371]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

You don't have to. I think most people get that, but the list is still broken and reeks of jealousy from players in the league.

There is no way someone like Albert Pujols should be on that list. How is a man that has done what he's done in his career overrated? I'd argue that he's underrated because people still don't really appreciate what they are witnessing.

And maybe a guy like Nick Swisher is overrated in New York. I've said that before and many other Yankee fans have agreed. But across the country? Who cares about Swisher? ESPN hardly even talks about him.

The truth is Swisher was always a headline type guy because he was a flamboyant character while in Oakland. Everyone loved talking about his long hair, goatee and excitement on the field. And he was wearing green and gold then. Nothing's changed but that he's won a ring.

If you look at the triple slash Albert Pujols has posted throughout his career and the triple slash he's likely to post at the end of this season, the discrepancy is probably larger than any other player on the list.

I'm not saying that means Pujols is overrated, but if you look at what you think of with Albert and what he's actually doing this year then he probably fits the definition.

[djep]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

If you look at the triple slash Albert Pujols has posted throughout his career and the triple slash he's likely to post at the end of this season, the discrepancy is probably larger than any other player on the list.

I'm not saying that means Pujols is overrated, but if you look at what you think of with Albert and what he's actually doing this year then he probably fits the definition.

Pujols is back to being Pujols - just ask the Cubs when he walked them off on back to back nights. He had a terrible first month so his numbers look down across the board but you're talking about a 3-time MVP and 4-time MVP runner-up, including last season. He's up to .270 now with 16 homers and I wouldn't be surprised if he got to .300 with 35 HRs.

The contract talk may have been an issue with his slow start. Either way, he is one the greatest players of this generation and even the hint that he's overrated is just crazy talk.

[lonewolf371]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

Pujols is back to being Pujols - just ask the Cubs when he walked them off on back to back nights. He had a terrible first month so his numbers look down across the board but you're talking about a 3-time MVP and 4-time MVP runner-up, including last season. He's up to .270 now with 16 homers and I wouldn't be surprised if he got to .300 with 35 HRs.

The contract talk may have been an issue with his slow start. Either way, he is one the greatest players of this generation and even the hint that he's overrated is just crazy talk.

.300 with 35 homers would be the worst season of his career. .029 lower than his career average BA and 3 HR lower than his career average HR. I think his current ability might be overrated slightly. If you're talking in context of his entire career then I think he's fairly underrated, as people seem talk about him less than A-Rod, yet Pujols has been light-years better than A-Rod.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

Pujols is back to being Pujols - just ask the Cubs when he walked them off on back to back nights. He had a terrible first month so his numbers look down across the board but you're talking about a 3-time MVP and 4-time MVP runner-up, including last season. He's up to .270 now with 16 homers and I wouldn't be surprised if he got to .300 with 35 HRs.

The contract talk may have been an issue with his slow start. Either way, he is one the greatest players of this generation and even the hint that he's overrated is just crazy talk.

If he was projected to bat over .300 and he currently isn't doing that, he would be overrated. If today he is projected to go 4-for-5 with two dingers and he goes 4-for-5 with 1 one dinger, he would be overrated. We're not talking about how good he is, we're simply talking about how much his seasonal expectations aren't being met, though his June numbers are fantastic (and many might expect better, which would once again... overrate him).

[djep]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

.300 with 35 homers would be the worst season of his career. .029 lower than his career average BA and 3 HR lower than his career average HR. I think his current ability might be overrated slightly. If you're talking in context of his entire career then I think he's fairly underrated, as people seem talk about him less than A-Rod, yet Pujols has been light-years better than A-Rod.

This could end up being the worst year of his career thus far but if he were to get to .300 and 35 that would be just .014 lower than his average in his second season, about 8 hits in 600 at bats. The 35 HRs would be one more than he hit that year.

[djep]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

If he was projected to bat over .300 and he currently isn't doing that, he would be overrated. If today he is projected to go 4-for-5 with two dingers and he goes 4-for-5 with 1 one dinger, he would be overrated. We're not talking about how good he is, we're simply talking about how much his seasonal expectations aren't being met, though his June numbers are fantastic (and many might expect better, which would once again... overrate him).

Where can I find these projections? Is there a definitive set of projections I can reference or do they exist in aggregate, like a Metacritic for baseball players?

Based on your hypothetical scenario, overrated-ness is something to be gauged on a day-by-day basis. Because he hit one fewer home run than projected on a given day, he's overrated. If Michael Jordan goes 5-21 from the field one day and he's overrated.

Anyone with the track record of Pujols deserves some benefit of the doubt. He's had an off year thus far - no one is disputing that. But to consider him overrated after just 3 months into his 11th season after the remarkable consistency and production of his first 10 years is hard to believe.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

All I said is overratedness comes in many forms, there's no clear-cut definition. However, overratedness has nothing to do with how good you are as a player. Yes, sometimes more exposure allows you to be called out for being overrated, but they also probably are overrated because they are getting more exposure than others who are nearly just as capable. That's why my first post was a shot at the AL East for mostly being on this list, because they are the players who get the most exposure (specifically in Boston and New York).

And of course there isn't a fact sheet that says who is overrated and who isn't, it's all opinionated. That's why this was a players poll, not an end-all, be-all list. That's why we're having a discussion on it, as opposed to a discussion on why 2 + 2 = 4. Barry Zito is overrated because of the contract he was given, but he's not overrated by the amount of playing time he's given (remember, he wasn't even on our playoff roster). The Boston Red Sox are overrated in MLB 11: The Show, but they are not overrated when it comes to projecting them to finish 3rd in the AL East race (at least, as it stands).

I mean, it comes in so many forms. In this case, Albert Pujols has been hailed as a god in St. Louis and in Baseball America. Of course, he isn't pitched to like Bonds was. Bonds was walked 233 times in 2004. He had a wishbone defense against him, was given nasty sliders and changeups that tried to nibble corners in hitter's counts, faced lefty specialists late in games all the time, and was in an unfavorable ballpark for left-handed hitters. Yet, Pujols is compared to Bonds despite the factors that played against him (and in Pujols' favor, relatively). Yeah, I'd say that Pujols is overrated. And finally, we're seeing a season where he has hit some sort of decline. Yeah, he's picking up again (though he just injured himself), but I don't see where he betters Bonds in any which way. Because of that, in my opinion, I find him highly overrated. Again, this has nothing to do with his skill.

But don't worry, he's not the only player who I do find overrated.

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

All I said is overratedness comes in many forms, there's no clear-cut definition. However, overratedness has nothing to do with how good you are as a player. Yes, sometimes more exposure allows you to be called out for being overrated, but they also probably are overrated because they are getting more exposure than others who are nearly just as capable. That's why my first post was a shot at the AL East for mostly being on this list, because they are the players who get the most exposure (specifically in Boston and New York).

And of course there isn't a fact sheet that says who is overrated and who isn't, it's all opinionated. That's why this was a players poll, not an end-all, be-all list. That's why we're having a discussion on it, as opposed to a discussion on why 2 + 2 = 4. Barry Zito is overrated because of the contract he was given, but he's not overrated by the amount of playing time he's given (remember, he wasn't even on our playoff roster). The Boston Red Sox are overrated in MLB 11: The Show, but they are not overrated when it comes to projecting them to finish 3rd in the AL East race (at least, as it stands).

I mean, it comes in so many forms. In this case, Albert Pujols has been hailed as a god in St. Louis and in Baseball America. Of course, he isn't pitched to like Bonds was. Bonds was walked 233 times in 2004. He had a wishbone defense against him, was given nasty sliders and changeups that tried to nibble corners in hitter's counts, faced lefty specialists late in games all the time, and was in an unfavorable ballpark for left-handed hitters. Yet, Pujols is compared to Bonds despite the factors that played against him (and in Pujols' favor, relatively). Yeah, I'd say that Pujols is overrated. And finally, we're seeing a season where he has hit some sort of decline. Yeah, he's picking up again (though he just injured himself), but I don't see where he betters Bonds in any which way. Because of that, in my opinion, I find him highly overrated. Again, this has nothing to do with his skill.

But don't worry, he's not the only player who I do find overrated.

So you think that Pujols is overrated simply because some people thought he was better than Bonds at the end of his career? You're not basing it on anything else?

Interesting.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

So you think that Pujols is overrated simply because some people thought he was better than Bonds at the end of his career? You're not basing it on anything else?

Interesting.

You think I'm carrying a bias of some sort? I'll put Bonds in his place, I don't think he's flawless. He wasn't my favorite baseball player because he was a Giant, he was because he was ****ing good.

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: MLB Players Poll: Most Overrated Player

You think I'm carrying a bias of some sort? I'll put Bonds in his place, I don't think he's flawless. He wasn't my favorite baseball player because he was a Giant, he was because he was ****ing good.

I'm just wondering because that's how it sounds. Your earlier post made it sounds like Pujols was putting up pedestrian numbers compared to Bonds and didn't deserve to be in the same discussion as Barry. That's all I'm saying.