Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

[12]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

I'd argue our rotation has been the biggest weakness during the last week of this streak. Bottom line, this team is just not good. Our bullpen and rotation was way better than I expected up until this streak, and the offense is about what I thought it'd be. Pathetically bad, and only slightly better than last year.

I'm still a Jack Z believer. I think he's done a pretty good job with what he's had to work with and has done a 180 to the minor league system. I don't fault him for Figgins since nobody saw that coming, Guti has been a disaster at the plate unexpectedly, and this is the first year Ichiro has finally shown he's slowing down.

Those are great points.

I loved the Figgins signing at the time. I thought Gutierrez had arrived as one of the better center fielders in the game. I even loved the trade for Milton Bradley because it got Carlos Silva out of Seattle.

I do think he is handcuffed by the front office and probably has little say (and little money) on how to improve the Major League roster.

So again I'm admitting that I was too hard on Z and most of what I said was said out of frustration.

[ty5oke]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

It's hard to win baseball games when you have players like Ryan hitting 2nd and Kennedy hitting 3rd before Ackley moved up in the batting order.

I think there's a chance Jack Z gets dumped after the season (I wouldn't fire him if I was in charge). It's 2 years in a row now he hasn't been able to produce a competent offense. Once you throw in the Lueke situation, it doesn't look good for him. The farm system is also in terrible shape when it comes to hitting prospects.

On a semi-related note, Dave Cameron from U.S.S. Mariner announced he has cancer. I believe he's only 30 or 31 years old.

Sad news about Dave. Really enjoy his take on the club.

[rsox]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

The bad thing for the Mariners is because of the ballpark they play in they can't get big offensive players to sign there. When a feast-or-famine hitter like Jack Cust has 5 times as many Doubles (15) as Home Runs (3) something isn't going right.
We've been hearing for a decade now about how great a run producer Ichiro can be maybe it's time to move him to the a RBI spot in the lineup and look for a leadoff hitter next winter. Figgins has been a disaster and it is possible the M's may look to eat the remainder of his contract after this season.

I don't think Jack Z. gets fired this offseason but i do think he will be in the hot seat going forward into the 2012 season and could be fired if the Mariners continue to play badly.

[ty5oke]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

The bad thing for the Mariners is because of the ballpark they play in they can't get big offensive players to sign there. When a feast-or-famine hitter like Jack Cust has 5 times as many Doubles (15) as Home Runs (3) something isn't going right.
We've been hearing for a decade now about how great a run producer Ichiro can be maybe it's time to move him to the a RBI spot in the lineup and look for a leadoff hitter next winter. Figgins has been a disaster and it is possible the M's may look to eat the remainder of his contract after this season.

I don't think Jack Z. gets fired this offseason but i do think he will be in the hot seat going forward into the 2012 season and could be fired if the Mariners continue to play badly.

I don't think Ichiro will allow that.

[Coug00]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

I laughed too. No, it wasn't a flame. I was much too sensitive there.

I am not in a camp by myself, though. Many M's fans are done. That doesn't mean that they're bandwagon fans. This organization has given us very little to be excited about since their existence. Fans support the team in different ways.

I got riled up because you called me a whiner and a bandwagon fan. Or at least that's how I saw it, and that's so far from the truth. You make great points and I don't wish to argue about it. We do see some things differently but there's nothing wrong with that.

I could tell your post was out of frustration. Mine was too. Cats & Dawgs. :wink:

Regarding Z's future, if they can him after this season, I will be done with the Mariners. I would never adopt another team, but I would be done with them until they get a new ownership group and get Armstrong & Lincoln out of the front office. I'm not sure what business an attorney and Nintendo exec have running a baseball club, but their history shows they have none. Three years to build up through the minor league system when you started with very little value in trade chips is way too soon. Its baseball, it can take a long time for young talent to develop. Personally, I think he needs at least two more years no matter the outcome of them.

[snepp]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

They sure lost in impressive fashion tonight.



You have my sympathies.

[12]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

I could tell your post was out of frustration. Mine was too. Cats & Dawgs. :wink:

Regarding Z's future, if they can him after this season, I will be done with the Mariners. I would never adopt another team, but I would be done with them until they get a new ownership group and get Armstrong & Lincoln out of the front office. I'm not sure what business an attorney and Nintendo exec have running a baseball club, but their history shows they have none. Three years to build up through the minor league system when you started with very little value in trade chips is way too soon. Its baseball, it can take a long time for young talent to develop. Personally, I think he needs at least two more years no matter the outcome of them.

I honestly agree 100 percent with you, especially with the text in bold. I have backed off from Z and basically done a 180. It was wrong of me to want to get rid of him so fast. He has bolstered our farm and no one can dispute that. During the Bavasi years, the M's consistently had a bottom five farm system. Right now, it probably sits anywhere from 15-20, but losing Pineda and Ackley as prospects took us out of the top 10. That's pretty impressive.

So many people hated the Hultzen pick. I did too, at first. But when I really looked at the kid, and read up on him, I began to love the pick. Obviously, the M's did not like Rendon's shoulder. Bubba Starling was extremely intriguing, but it wasn't feasible to roll the dice on him with that commitment to Nebraska. I believe that Starling and Lindor were considered, but in the end, the risk was too much. I think he took the best player available. A future rotation consisting of Felix, Pineda, Hultzen, Paxton and Walker could end up being pretty dominant.

Also, the M's front office is the root of ALL of my frustration. That's where all of my anger comes from. We have an owner who has never been to Safeco and we have two corporate lap dogs running our organization. I think Z is handcuffed a great deal. It's why I haven't been to Safeco Field for a couple of years now. They want to sell us on nostalgia and bobble heads. It just gets old.

I can stomach a legit rebuilding effort. I love our young guys. It's not the wins and losses that bother me so much, it's the front office.

Hopefully some of our young hitters pan out. I really like Nick Franklin and Guillermo Pimentel. We drafted a good catcher in John Hicks, who could possibly fill that void at the catcher position in a year or two. I am excited about the future.

I definitely agree on Z getting two more years.

[12]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

I could tell your post was out of frustration. Mine was too. Cats & Dawgs. :wink:

Well, you're really going to hate me now:

I love both the Cougs and the Dawgs.

I know, it's weird.

[brett the jet favre]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

im a M's fan and this streak sucks major D... Ichiro has just dropped off the planet, which sucks, Felix and Pineda aint pitching well.. and Fister hasnt won since May, WTF is up with that, Our offence sucks.. And its hard, but I do believe, Ackley is doin great! And hopefully Figgy will be dealt by the deadline, and Felix has a 5 year contract, he signed a new one this year I believe, its not 2.

[Coug00]

Well, you're really going to hate me now:

I love both the Cougs and the Dawgs.

I know, it's weird.

Actually, before I went to Wazzu, I liked them both. That changed very quickly my freshman year.

Although I am happy both teams are on the upswing. Its much more fun when they are competitive. These past few years have been abysmal.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[SPTO]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

Would the Mariners entertain the thought of trading Ichiro during the deadline or in the offseason for younger players with more upside?

Just curious.

[ty5oke]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

Would the Mariners entertain the thought of trading Ichiro during the deadline or in the offseason for younger players with more upside?

Just curious.

I don't think the owner would approve.

[12]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

Would the Mariners entertain the thought of trading Ichiro during the deadline or in the offseason for younger players with more upside?

Just curious.

The one and only way Ichiro gets dealt is if he demands a trade.

He's a 10/5 guy and from a pure business/financial standpoint, the M's don't have any incentive to trade him.

Our front office is not baseball minded, so it'll never happen unless my first sentence in this post happens.

My hope is that he gracefully leaves Seattle and finishes his final two or three years in Japan.

I just don't think him leaving Seattle in a trade is realistic at all.

[jamesfansince03]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

its my family fault ever since we moved to mn from Seattle the NBA team left and the Mariners suck. When I move back to Seattle for college in a few years they will do good again and the sonics will come back watch. I want Ichiro to win a title as much as the next guy but if he leaves there will be now one one there roster from when I was little and used to go to games in Seattle :{

[mikenever]

Re: Thoughts on disastrous Mariners?

The bad thing for the Mariners is because of the ballpark they play in they can't get big offensive players to sign there. When a feast-or-famine hitter like Jack Cust has 5 times as many Doubles (15) as Home Runs (3) something isn't going right.
We've been hearing for a decade now about how great a run producer Ichiro can be maybe it's time to move him to the a RBI spot in the lineup and look for a leadoff hitter next winter. Figgins has been a disaster and it is possible the M's may look to eat the remainder of his contract after this season.

I don't think Jack Z. gets fired this offseason but i do think he will be in the hot seat going forward into the 2012 season and could be fired if the Mariners continue to play badly.

Its not as if the Giants play in a hitters paradise.