Baseball on the decline in US?

[Money99]

We got on this subject in the 2K forums, but I hated hijacking that thread so I thought it might be worth discussing here.

I've read a few articles that have shown stats which reveal a decline in baseball registration. Especially amongst African Americans.

This topic is very interesting to me. As a Canadian, hockey is our #1 sport and we've seen a decline in our numbers as well.
But to me, that's not a surprise when you look at the cost, the politics and how dangerous the game has become.

Baseball doesn't share the same issues.

So I wonder why it's on the decline? And why are less African-American's playing too?
There are so many quality black players in the majors I would assume young kids would have many great representatives of their race to look up to.

I'd love to hear some of the members thoughts on this subject.

[Qbrick808]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

One aspect is clearly socio-economic. This is obviously based upon generalizations, but they are factual as opposed to stereotypical. Quite simply, the cost of getting a basketball and going to a local park with a rim is virtually nil when compared to obtaining the significant amount of equipment required for baseball (gloves for each and every player, bats, catcher’s gear, etc.). It is also relatively costly to maintain a baseball field (although this can be overcome by playing on a substandard field) whereas public basketball courts require almost no maintenance at all. And by the way, I know Sammy Sosa used a milk carton for a mitt when he was a kid, but he grew up in a culture where baseball was king so he did whatever he had to in order to get on the field.

Another factor is obviously rooted in who kids relate to and look up to. If black kids tend to identify more with successful black athletes, than the first place they will be looking is a basketball court. I don’t know exactly what percentage of NBA players are black, but no one would argue that it is extremely high (probably 80% or more). Meanwhile, Major League Baseball is dominated by whites and Hispanics with less than 7% of all MLB players being black. That is a startling difference which will likely continue as a result of this perpetual cycle.

Then there is of course the element which is often brought up about baseball being too slow paced; I don’t put as much stock in that as many people do, but it must be true to some extent because polls and research have shown some data to validate the concept.

Regardless of race or economics, one cannot deny that it is much easier to get 4 or 6 or 8 or even 10 guys together for a game of hoops than it is to organize whatever number of people would be considered the minimum to field two teams for a legit baseball game (probably no less than 6 or 7 per side). You don’t have the luxury of running out for a quick 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 game of baseball, and again, a basketball hoop is much easier to come by than a field suitable for baseball.<O</O

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Excellent points Qbrick808.
I had no idea that African-American's made up only 7% of MLB. I'm quite shocked about that.

It's also true about how much easier it is to get a basketball, or even football game going compared to baseball.

I think coaching has a lot to do with it too. I regard baseball as the hardest sport to coach in regards to young kids.
With basketball, football and hockey, there's not as much standing around and it's easy to simply tell a kid to skate, dribble or toss the ball around.

With baseball, coaches need to have patience and a lot of creativity in order to make the game exciting and blossom a love for the game.
I actually quit baseball as a 13-year-old because I grew tired of going to practices where all we did was hit off a coach, and then field for the other 10 hitters on the team.
We never worked on grounders, double-plays, stealing bases, etc. It wasn't any fun.
And I go by the diamonds in our area and too many times I see the same thing going on there. And then we wonder why baseball's taken a backseat to soccer, lacrosse and hockey.

My brother coached my kids T-ball team this past year and he did an amazing job with the drills he ran for the kids. They were always moving and all the drills had an element of fun to them. We always had top attendance with our team for practices and games.

I tried doing the same with my Rookie ball club. I scoured the internet and books to find good drills. Some worked, some didn't, but between myself, my brother and the other two coaches, we did our best to keep the practices moving and always tried to keep 'fun' at the top of the list.
Our team also experienced great attendance throughout the year. Even on the hottest days when you could melt a steal bat.

So I think if coaches really try to make it worth while for the kids, and show a genuine love for the game, it can only help.

But it seems this new generation considers baseball boring and not a lot of people are putting in the effort to make it as fun as it can be.

[SPTO]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Qbrick makes some good points as does you money99, i'll just add that one factor is definitely economic but on the payout to success ratio. Looking at basketball and football it's definitely a lot easier to get a huge payout and success can be found a LOT easier playing those sports rather than baseball. In a generation (or 2 now) where getting to the top as fast as you can takes precedent over hard work this was bound to happen.

Basketball and football players immediately get huge pay days even the lower drafted kids get more money playing those sports than they would at the entry level in baseball. Most of those kids will get on the pro court/field a lot faster than the baseball player who will have to toil in the minor leagues and while their contracts are nothing to sneeze at it's a far cry over the level entry contracts of basketball and football players.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Qbrick makes some good points as does you money99, i'll just add that one factor is definitely economic but on the payout to success ratio. Looking at basketball and football it's definitely a lot easier to get a huge payout and success can be found a LOT easier playing those sports rather than baseball. In a generation (or 2 now) where getting to the top as fast as you can takes precedent over hard work this was bound to happen.

Basketball and football players immediately get huge pay days even the lower drafted kids get more money playing those sports than they would at the entry level in baseball. Most of those kids will get on the pro court/field a lot faster than the baseball player who will have to toil in the minor leagues and while their contracts are nothing to sneeze at it's a far cry over the level entry contracts of basketball and football players.

Good points SPTO.
Not to mention that baseball is a global sport where you're competing against talent from several different countries.
Basketball is growing world-wide, but most of the talent still comes from the US.
And unless you're a kicker, you're probably an American if you're in the NFL.
There's a lot less competition in those sports compared to baseball.

Still, the one thing that baseball has going for it is that you can be pretty much any size and be effective. You don't have to be giant, super strong, extremely fast, etc.
There are several examples of guys who were skinny, short, overweight, etc that have done very well in MLB. Size isn't as big of a deal.
So you would think there'd be more kids playing the sport considering that if your'e not type-A in basketball or football, it's harder to be successful.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

While yes, if you want to play organized baseball it can be expensive, I don't buy for one minute that playing pick up baseball is more expensive that basketball.

When I was a kid we didn't have gloves, or a real baseball, nor a real field. We played with tennis balls/anything round we could find, and anything that we could use to hit it.

I do believe basketball is more popular because you can play it by yourself where baseball takes at least two.

I don't buy that baseball is on the decline...I do believe there are more options for kids to choose from today.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

It's no longer cool to like baseball. At least that's what it seems like.

[kehlis]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

It's a really interesting discussion especially bringing hockey in Canada into the discussion. I was surprised to see that.

Does anyone know if football is down as well at all (relatively of course)?

My initial thought is that it just a sign of the times with the evolution of television being a big part of that.

I grew up in a time when video games were limited, tv was limited so the only left to do was to gather up as many friends as possible and find something to do. And my father who played a large influence on me obviously grew up in a time with even less to do.

I don't expect to ever see a drop in basketball for reasons previously mentioned but I think it's become more difficult for the youth these days to get together enough people to play some of these other sports at a young age.

Parents are being dragged in so many directions anymore, more to watch on TV, more video games.

[slickdtc]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

I don't see it from the kids I grew up with. It seemed in school, people knew other people previously from playing baseball together. I always felt a bit left out because I played hockey and soccer growing up.

[Majingir]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

World is becoming more fast pace. Most people I know who like sports likes at least basketball.

Most people I know that doesn't like baseball doesn't like it because they say it's boring. I sorta agree, but only when it's games not containing a team I like(or I'm not playing it, either in video game or real life). Hockey/basketball I can watch whether it's the team I like, or just a good overall matchup.

I'd rather watch heat-bulls or canucks-flames over yankees-redsox.

But it's probably from the way people grow up too. If you're surrounded by people who don't like something, you'll prob not like it either. And in school,people play basketball during gym or recess and hockey can be easily played in the schoolyard or in a gym as well. It's hard to play baseball in a school yard(and impossible to play inside a gym,real scary trying to take fielding practice inside a small gym cause it's rainy outside and field is flooded. Even worse if you're a pitcher lol)

So you can't really enjoy a sport if you don't play it that much.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

There are probably a million of reasons why baseball is in the decline here. Socio-economic reasons are at the top of that list, and the people that kids look to as heroes has an effect too. One of the reasons why I think that there are fewer and fewer black players is because A) it is cheaper to start out in basketball, and B) because there are fewer black players to look up to. Of course, that's one example, but there are many more.

Of course, this ties into the discussion about "one-sport kids" as well. Now and into the future with the new draft rules, it is going to be more enticing for kids to play football and basketball then to play other sports. Parents aren't immune to this either; if they see that their kids are athletic and think they have even the slightest potential to make big bucks, they are going to look to get these kids into specialization football or basketball. It's not even about what the kids want to do, it's about what parents think is best for their kid, even if it goes against his/her interests.

The thing is, I don't know any good answers to these problems...

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

We got on this subject in the 2K forums, but I hated hijacking that thread so I thought it might be worth discussing here.

I've read a few articles that have shown stats which reveal a decline in baseball registration. Especially amongst African Americans.

This topic is very interesting to me. As a Canadian, hockey is our #1 sport and we've seen a decline in our numbers as well.
But to me, that's not a surprise when you look at the cost, the politics and how dangerous the game has become.

Baseball doesn't share the same issues.

So I wonder why it's on the decline? And why are less African-American's playing too?
There are so many quality black players in the majors I would assume young kids would have many great representatives of their race to look up to.

I'd love to hear some of the members thoughts on this subject.

1. No full scollies for college baseball.

2. Baseball abandoned inner cities 25 years ago

[kehlis]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

1. No full scollies for college baseball.

2. Baseball abandoned inner cities 25 years ago

1. False.

2. That's part of the question. Did baseball abandon inner cities or did inner cities abandon baseball?

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

1. False.

2. That's part of the question. Did baseball abandon inner cities or did inner cities abandon baseball?

D1 is 11.7 scollies for 30-35 players. D2 is 9 and NAIA is 12. What is that 1 or 2 full rides and the other 30 or so guys on patrial or half? Hoops is 13 full rides for 15 players and football is 85 or the 105 man travel roster. If your a poor kid from the projects which avenue are you most likely going to take? Most likely football or hoops. Pure numbers game.

Inner city leagues dried up as scouting went to latin america & more combine testing in the USA. The problem with that is those combines are mostly held in the burbs where public transportation does not go. What you had was a domino effect. The little leagues dried up or there is nothing for the kids after age 12 or the middle & high schools dont have a team. Those kids turn to hoops and football to better there socioeconomic standing. Now the RBI program is making serious headway fixing that issue but at the end of the day, it's still an entire generation of kids lost to other sports.

[SPTO]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

MLB is at least trying to get back into the inner cities with their RBI Program I don't know how successful it is but they've pushed it pretty aggressively. I think the NHL's inner city program is based on it as well.