Baseball on the decline in US?

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

It's a really interesting discussion especially bringing hockey in Canada into the discussion. I was surprised to see that.

Does anyone know if football is down as well at all (relatively of course)?

My initial thought is that it just a sign of the times with the evolution of television being a big part of that.

I grew up in a time when video games were limited, tv was limited so the only left to do was to gather up as many friends as possible and find something to do. And my father who played a large influence on me obviously grew up in a time with even less to do.

I don't expect to ever see a drop in basketball for reasons previously mentioned but I think it's become more difficult for the youth these days to get together enough people to play some of these other sports at a young age.

Parents are being dragged in so many directions anymore, more to watch on TV, more video games.

I'm desperately trying to find an article from 2009 that I recently read showing the registration stats.
It showed that hockey and football were on the rise (38% to 33%) while baseball was down nearly 30%.

Your last point is a valid one too.
I think the last generation had a lot more time to do things on their own. We would find a field, or pond, or empty lot to play any sorts of games beit hockey, football or baseball.
But now it seems because families are so busy, that when kids play sports, it's organized sports - not the sandlot variety.
And because baseball doesn't seem to be as 'cool' as it used to be (in some pockets of the US), it gets the shaft over faster-paced activities like football and basketball.

It's a shame. I don't think the MLB is going anywhere, but at the grassroots levels, it seems that baseball is slipping down alongside horseracing and boxing. All three sports were the most popular 50-70 years ago. Since then, football, basketball and MMA have come on very strong.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

The argument about sandlot vs. organized games is a product of the new society. Once, kids would run around the neighborhood and have fun. Now, there is so much over-protection (some warranted, some not) that pick-up games just don't happen. Of course, that was the same when I was a kid for baseball and I grew up in a neighborhood of older families.

I wouldn't say that baseball is on the level of horse racing and boxing at all. I'd say that it's still second in the view of many Americans based on viewership and attendance. Horse racing is struggling to make any sort of money, and boxing can't get premier fighters to actually fight each other. Baseball still has six levels of organized professional play and still gets a lot of attention.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

The argument about sandlot vs. organized games is a product of the new society. Once, kids would run around the neighborhood and have fun. Now, there is so much over-protection (some warranted, some not) that pick-up games just don't happen. Of course, that was the same when I was a kid for baseball and I grew up in a neighborhood of older families.

Very true. I'm guilty of this as well. I know I'm very over-protective. I've also gone over the edge when it comes to encouraging my kids sporting desires.
My son has been playing football every recess for the past 5 months. He's always saying how much fun football is. So what do I do? I start looking into flag-football leagues, and what other organized league I could sign him up for.
When I asked him if he'd like that, he just kind of shrugged it off and said that he'd play organized football when he was in highschool, but would continue to play with friends at recess.
That set me back in my place. Who cares if he's playing in a league, or with rules. He's just having fun playing with his friends.
He'll ask to play in the park behind the house too.
So I've learned to just leave it at that. He's having fun, so I shouldn't stick my parental nose in there and fuel my need for him to succeed at an organized form of the sport.

[Mrgravyard49]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

IF MLB is in decline, Look for lots of homeruns to start again.
Lots of People Love offense beit BB or Football. Bud Selig let the players get juiced up before. So Look for it again..

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

IF MLB is in decline, Look for lots of homeruns to start again.
Lots of People Love offense beit BB or Football. Bud Selig let the players get juiced up before. So Look for it again..

With such amazing proof, how can we doubt you?

Spoiler

ugh

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Finally found the article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...mod=rss_Sports

From 2000 to 2009, the latest year for which figures are available, the number of kids aged 7 to 17 playing baseball fell 24%, according to the National Sporting Goods Association, an industry trade group. Despite growing concerns about the long-term effects of concussions, participation in youth tackle football has soared 21% over the same time span, while ice hockey jumped 38%. The Sporting Goods Manufacturing Association, another industry trade group, said baseball participation fell 12.7% for the overall population.

Another interesting stat:

As for Little League, which covers kids aged 4 to 18, about two million kids played in the U.S. last year, compared to about 2.5 million in 1996—an overall decline of 25%. The only growth in youth baseball participation since the 1990s, according to the NSGA, has come from kids who play more than 50 times a year—which suggests more children who play baseball have chosen to specialize.

To me that's sad. But it's happening more and more.
I know lots of parents who have their kids on the ice 9 to 12 months out of the year.
One kid I know is on a skating-treadmill at least there times a week - along with being on the ice for his rep team 4x a week. His dad is desperate to make him a hockey star.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

The decline is also occurring in Canada:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2008001/t/10573/5214759-eng.htm

These stats are older (1992-2005), but it shows that the % of 5-14 year old's playing baseball has dropped from 13% to 5%.
Baseball had higher participation than hockey in 1992. But maybe that has a lot to do with the Jays winning a World Series.

[thaSLAB]

Double Post. Sorry.

[thaSLAB]

One aspect is clearly socio-economic. This is obviously based upon generalizations, but they are factual as opposed to stereotypical. Quite simply, the cost of getting a basketball and going to a local park with a rim is virtually nil when compared to obtaining the significant amount of equipment required for baseball (gloves for each and every player, bats, catcher’s gear, etc.). It is also relatively costly to maintain a baseball field (although this can be overcome by playing on a substandard field) whereas public basketball courts require almost no maintenance at all. And by the way, I know Sammy Sosa used a milk carton for a mitt when he was a kid, but he grew up in a culture where baseball was king so he did whatever he had to in order to get on the field.

Another factor is obviously rooted in who kids relate to and look up to. If black kids tend to identify more with successful black athletes, than the first place they will be looking is a basketball court. I don’t know exactly what percentage of NBA players are black, but no one would argue that it is extremely high (probably 80% or more). Meanwhile, Major League Baseball is dominated by whites and Hispanics with less than 7% of all MLB players being black. That is a startling difference which will likely continue as a result of this perpetual cycle.

Then there is of course the element which is often brought up about baseball being too slow paced; I don’t put as much stock in that as many people do, but it must be true to some extent because polls and research have shown some data to validate the concept.

Regardless of race or economics, one cannot deny that it is much easier to get 4 or 6 or 8 or even 10 guys together for a game of hoops than it is to organize whatever number of people would be considered the minimum to field two teams for a legit baseball game (probably no less than 6 or 7 per side). You don’t have the luxury of running out for a quick 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 game of baseball, and again, a basketball hoop is much easier to come by than a field suitable for baseball.<o</o

/thread

Great post QBrick! Couldn't have said it better myself...


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[12]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

We got on this subject in the 2K forums, but I hated hijacking that thread so I thought it might be worth discussing here.

I've read a few articles that have shown stats which reveal a decline in baseball registration. Especially amongst African Americans.

This topic is very interesting to me. As a Canadian, hockey is our #1 sport and we've seen a decline in our numbers as well.
But to me, that's not a surprise when you look at the cost, the politics and how dangerous the game has become.

Baseball doesn't share the same issues.

So I wonder why it's on the decline? And why are less African-American's playing too?
There are so many quality black players in the majors I would assume young kids would have many great representatives of their race to look up to.

I'd love to hear some of the members thoughts on this subject.

I haven't read any of the replies here, so I might be saying something that someone has already said, but I think it's because sports for America's youth has become so competitive. My nieces play basketball, and it's basically year round. My nephews play football and basketball, so there's no room for baseball.

With baseball, if you don't commit to it year round, you fall behind. You just can't keep up with the kids who have chosen that as their main sport and can dedicate most of their time to it.

At least where I'm from, I think that's what the problem is - if it's even in a problem. Sports are just becoming crazy competitive.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

I haven't read any of the replies here, so I might be saying something that someone has already said, but I think it's because sports for America's youth has become so competitive. My nieces play basketball, and it's basically year round. My nephews play football and basketball, so there's no room for baseball.

With baseball, if you don't commit to it year round, you fall behind. You just can't keep up with the kids who have chosen that as their main sport and can dedicate most of their time to it.

At least where I'm from, I think that's what the problem is - if it's even in a problem. Sports are just becoming crazy competitive.

That's certainly part of the issue.
Kids are specializing more and more these days, there's no doubt about that.
I'm just wondering why baseball is not the first choice for most kids.

[douggoud]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

In one word? Football. Sadly it has become America's most popular sport (for what reason I shall never know, and don't hate on me guys, but I just. don't. like. football. Never enjoyed watching it). And basketball has become quite popular as well. I think it has to do with people just being so frickin' impatient these days, "Baseball is boring, nothing happens." That comment just about makes me want to kill whoever says it. Because they fail to understand baseball. Baseball is a slow sport, yes, I will admit that, but you know what? When something exciting does happen (a nice diving catch, a homerun, or even a walk off homerun) it becomes even more exciting than most thing in other sports that are constant action. At least thats how I see it, probably wrong, who knows?

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

In one word? Football. Sadly it has become America's most popular sport (for what reason I shall never know, and don't hate on me guys, but I just. don't. like. football. Never enjoyed watching it). And basketball has become quite popular as well. I think it has to do with people just being so frickin' impatient these days, "Baseball is boring, nothing happens." That comment just about makes me want to kill whoever says it. Because they fail to understand baseball. Baseball is a slow sport, yes, I will admit that, but you know what? When something exciting does happen (a nice diving catch, a homerun, or even a walk off homerun) it becomes even more exciting than most thing in other sports that are constant action. At least thats how I see it, probably wrong, who knows?

You're preaching to the choir. I have nothing against football and I enjoy watching it and playing it with my kids.
But baseball isn't boring - at least to me.
But that's not how today's generation sees it.
A good friend of mine was once scouted by the Royals. He was an awesome ball player and loved the game.
He has 3 kids who are all enormous and ridiculously athletic. The one kid has quads that would make Barry Sanders weep.
But they hate baseball and love soccer and hockey.
When my friend took his kids to watch a local Provincial championship game, the kids started begging to leave 10 minutes into the game. It was killing my friend.
Now, they all love to hit. When their dad gets a bat and ball out, they love it. But they can't comprehend standing in the field waiting for something to happen.
In today's ADHD world, I think some kids have a hard time breaking through that barrier.

I'll also say that I grew up loving baseball but quit as a teenager because of bad coaching. Our practices were simply one coach pitching while the rest of us fielded.

I think that's a major problem too. Kids can still have fun in 'action' sports even if they have bad coaches because they can still do something like run, kick or skate.
In baseball, if your coach doesn't know what's going on, all you do is stand, or sit, and wait. That can't help.

[CMH]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

While yes, if you want to play organized baseball it can be expensive, I don't buy for one minute that playing pick up baseball is more expensive that basketball.

When I was a kid we didn't have gloves, or a real baseball, nor a real field. We played with tennis balls/anything round we could find, and anything that we could use to hit it.

But you weren't playing baseball. You were playing a cheap version of the game like stickball or sponge ball or wiffle ball or whatever. That won't teach you how to hit a 70-95 mph fastball.

The skills necessary to become a good basketball player require a basket and a ball. It's really that simple. Advanced learning like offensive and defensive schemes is another thing, but we're not talking IQ here. We're talking about participation and ability to improve talent to make the league.

In baseball, you need a glove to learn how to play defense properly. Running after a fly ball to catch it with your bare hand isn't happening. If I smoked grounders to a gloveless kid at 3B, I'd be liable for arrest based on abuse.

A kid wants to be a pitcher? He really needs a catcher. That catcher needs equipment. Throwing against a wall is only going to get you so far, which isn't very far.

Want to learn how to hit? Soft toss can teach the basics, but if you're trying to make a team in college, you need to hit the cages. That's travel and cost for a bat and the cages.

While the little kid with the basketball is still honing his skills taking jumpshots with a friend.

Baseball is not cheaper than basketball. Never will be.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

But you weren't playing baseball. You were playing a cheap version of the game like stickball or sponge ball or wiffle ball or whatever. That won't teach you how to hit a 70-95 mph fastball.

The skills necessary to become a good basketball player require a basket and a ball. It's really that simple. Advanced learning like offensive and defensive schemes is another thing, but we're not talking IQ here. We're talking about participation and ability to improve talent to make the league.

In baseball, you need a glove to learn how to play defense properly. Running after a fly ball to catch it with your bare hand isn't happening. If I smoked grounders to a gloveless kid at 3B, I'd be liable for arrest based on abuse.

A kid wants to be a pitcher? He really needs a catcher. That catcher needs equipment. Throwing against a wall is only going to get you so far, which isn't very far.

Want to learn how to hit? Soft toss can teach the basics, but if you're trying to make a team in college, you need to hit the cages. That's travel and cost for a bat and the cages.

While the little kid with the basketball is still honing his skills taking jumpshots with a friend.

Baseball is not cheaper than basketball. Never will be.

All good points, but you could also say playing pick up basketball doesn't prepare for a game either. There are no refs, no set plays, etc. My point was if you love baseball, you don't need all the trappings of organized league play to get into it. Yes, it's always easier to play hoops...not denying that. I just don't buy that it's too difficult for these kids to play baseball if they want to.